Panzer "Hemden" Shirt for review...

[harrison987]

Hey guys...

This came from a collector who supposedly got it direct from the veteran.

Cotton (not Rayon)...dark grey (almost black). odd that the shoulder strap loops are present, but no buttons to retain the strap?

Someone I know also noted the following:


1. No sign of shoulder board buttons ever sewed. Shoulder strap loops different material and not manufactured when the shirt was manufactured (though the soldier could have added it later.)

2. Several buttons (maybe all) replaced based on the thread and stitching.

3. Metal pocket buttons look suspicious. (Though one button is B&N, a WW2 manufacturer).

4. It is not an issue shirt. Issue M-43 material was made of a rayon wool material. Pre 43 shirts were made of cotton/ rayon material. Officers and NCO could and did buy on the commercial market cotton shirts ( this shirt appears made of 100% cotton), but then why the stamped Rbnr# if it is not issued? Also the Rbnr# (or whatever stamp it is) looks better preserved than the material around it.


Thoughts?

TIA

Mike

[phild]

I agree with most every point that you wrote except to point out that a rbnr generally if found in issue items not private purchase. I also would think that post 41/42 items like this made from 100% cotton would be very unusual as makers simply could not obtain that fabric.

past all of that I don’t know what to say about the shirt other than it looks well made and generally of a pattern known to be used just maybe not in that fabric during the rbnr timeframe or as a issue item

[pauke]

To show the "whole" shirt close-ups of the collar top and under side, a couple buttons front/ back stitching, sleeve showing seam(s) laid out flat, bottom area where front short/back long pieces meet would be useful. The pre-war grey Pz. shirt did not have breast pockets. Of course they wore whatever they had as the war got going.

[harrison987]

will take better pics and close-ups tomorrow.

[derschar]

what do you guys think of this one as a panzer shirt ? i put a regular shirt next to it so yu can see the difference in color....it is the darkest one in my collection ...i figured it was just another color variation, ...were these darker ones with no pockets panzer style ? thank you for the help

[harrison987]

Please psot your shirt in a separate thread. I do not want my photos confused with your photos...and responses and opinions getting mixed up.

[harrison987]

To show the "whole" shirt close-ups of the collar top and under side, a couple buttons front/ back stitching, sleeve showing seam(s) laid out flat, bottom area where front short/back long pieces meet would be useful. The pre-war grey Pz. shirt did not have breast pockets. Of course they wore whatever they had as the war got going.

Hey Pauke,

Here are the requested pics.

Some things I noticed. One of the Pebbled buttons has a WaA inside - which I have never seen before, but will admit I am not a button expert. It does have slots for "collar stays"...but those were invented 200 years ago...so I cannot comment there, either.

Let me know your thoughts...

TIA

Mi DSCN1711-1280.jpg DSCN1709-1280.jpg DSCN1703-1280.jpg DSCN1712-1280.jpg DSCN1708-1280.jpg DSCN1713-1280.jpg DSCN1716-1280.jpg DSCN1715-1280.jpg DSCN1710-1280.jpg DSCN1714-1280.jpg ke

[harrison987]

more

[Gran Sasso]

I see nothing wrong, all details are there, the "tunnels" under the collar for the plastic strips, the triangle reenforcements at the side slits, etc.

[Alex Ciavaglia]

IMO, the 1st Panzerhemd has not the typical shape of the collar points of all ww2 german shirts.

[pauke]

I agree with most all the comments made. Exactly what the fabric is would best be determined with a hands-on inspection. The details I would expect to see are present and the shoulder loops look like they are original to when the shirt was produced. Two seams on the sleeve look correct. The collar points do look short for a war-time shirt IMO. It appears to be a standard mid-war issue shirt which happens to be grey, though I would not call it a "Panzer" shirt as it has pockets and I don't imagine it was produced very long after the war began. There is plenty of information to yet be discussed and determined about war-time shirts IMO.

[harrison987]

Thanks guys,

In regards to material...I was told it is not rayon. It appears to be cotton (according to the person who inspected in person).

That said...are we concluding that this is an early-war original shirt? Or something made-up to look original?

My concern is what "appears" to be a stamped white Rbn. number stamp. Rbn Numbers did not come out until later, did they not?

Mike

[Alex Ciavaglia]

Thanks guys,

In regards to material...I was told it is not rayon. It appears to be cotton (according to the person who inspected in person).

That said...are we concluding that this is an early-war original shirt? Or something made-up to look original?

My concern is what "appears" to be a stamped white Rbn. number stamp. Rbn Numbers did not come out until later, did they not?

Mike

Early war Dunkelgrau Panzershirts didn't have the breast pockets; they came only for ordnung of 23 juin 1943 as the same way of the Feldgrau model.