M40 (M41) Tunic Opinions??

[airborne_steve]

Hi all,

I have been looking at this M40 (M41) tunic for a while (see attached link). I know its a pretty penny. Other than that, the tunic looks good.

Please, I would like your expert opinions on it anyway.

Thank you for any comments.

Steve



http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H76353.html

[Steve Sherlock]

One thing I'd ask is if the stitching for the eagle goes through the lining. It looks good from the front, but I'd check it out.

I think it's a good piece. What I find interesting is the rough cloth used on an M-40, which is more typical of the M-43 tunic. I'm used to seeing M-40s with the better quality earlier cloth.

Not cheap, but the way these nice ones are going up, in a year or two you'll be glad you paid it.

Steve

[phild]

One thing I'd ask is if the stitching for the eagle goes through the lining. It looks good from the front, but I'd check it out.

I think it's a good piece. What I find interesting is the rough cloth used on an M-40, which is more typical of the M-43 tunic. I'm used to seeing M-40s with the better quality earlier cloth.

Not cheap, but the way these nice ones are going up, in a year or two you'll be glad you paid it.

Steve

I see no problems with the originality. I call these 6 button pleated pocket types "M41"s. It is not an official nomenclature, but neither or any of the other collector model designations and mine is more accuarate.

As to the material, you can see the depot date of 1942 and the rayon lining. I would date this one around mid 1942 or maybe even closer to the fall of 42 just prior to RBnrs being mandated for clothing markings. In other words, this is not far off from 1943 and the cloth can certainly be found to be coarser than in 1940.

[NTZ]

I like it a lot. I purchased an M41 a few years ago it didn’t have the added pocket pleats but was made of the coarser wool. As for price these things have been going through the roof. I think I paid $700 for mine. IMO Heer stuff is still a good value and should continue to grow. I think a lot of SS collectors are getting priced out of the market and have turned to Heer, LW and KM. This is just a guess of course but I see no reason for it to slow down.

[airborne_steve]

Thanks guys!


I also, like to call these tunics M41 as well due to the 6 button front and later field grey color.

Steve

[RoyA]

You can't go wrong with the seller...Peter is one of the best

[derspiess63]

I LOVE the way the litzen are zig-zag stitched to the collar and as for the eagle......I like it from the front (looks like the thread it's been sewn on with it's the same as seen on the photo of the collar,even if it's different from the one used for the litzen......strange but it actually happened from time to time!),but I wouldn't mind an inside view!
FWIW
Manuel

[phild]

I like it a lot. I purchased an M41 a few years ago it didn’t have the added pocket pleats but was made of the coarser wool. As for price these things have been going through the roof. I think I paid $700 for mine. IMO Heer stuff is still a good value and should continue to grow. I think a lot of SS collectors are getting priced out of the market and have turned to Heer, LW and KM. This is just a guess of course but I see no reason for it to slow down.

Just to be clear here, those pocket pleats were not added, they were made into the tunic when it was manufactured.

Perhaps many do not realize that there were five (5) basic variations in the 4 pocket Heer tunic that was first adopted in 35/36. You can call refer to these as follows:
M36 (actually started in production and issue in 1935)
M40 (actually started being made in limited numbers in 1939)
M41 (as above but with 6 instead of 5 front buttons)
M42 (pleats dropped but flaps still pointed)
M43 (pocket flaps now straight)

There was also a pre-adoption (test/prototype,trial..whatever one wants to call them) model that preceeded the M36, photos can be seen in the Davis book and others.

[Laurent]

Some more

I complete Phid informations and keep a part of his text, don't shoot for my poor english, but I am french.. There is a lot of details to add but it will be hard for me to explain it quickly. Hope this help a little bit !

M33
Official date for initial Feldbluse, no lining, 2 back hooks, collar made in the main material
M33/34
Official date, four hooks, no lining, collar made in "Feldgrau insignia material"
M33/35
Official date, no lining, collar made in "dark green insignia material"
M35/36
Official date, complete lining
M40
There isn't official date could be M39 in fact, Feldgrau collar in the main material
M41
Official date, "as above but with 6 instead of 5 front buttons"
M42
There isn't official date, "pleats dropped but flaps still pointed"
M43
There isn't official date, "pocket flaps now straight"

Laurent

[phild]

I complete Phid informations and keep a part of his text, don't shoot for my poor english, but I am french.. There is a lot of details to add but it will be hard for me to explain it quickly. Hope this help a little bit !

M33
Official date for initial Feldbluse, no lining, 2 back hooks, collar made in the main material
M33/34
Official date, four hooks, no lining, collar made in "Feldgrau insignia material"
M33/35
Official date, no lining, collar made in "dark green insignia material"
M35/36
Official date, complete lining
M40
There isn't official date could be M39 in fact, Feldgrau collar in the main material
M41
Official date, "as above but with 6 instead of 5 front buttons"
M42
There isn't official date, "pleats dropped but flaps still pointed"
M43
There isn't official date, "pocket flaps now straight"

Laurent

Thanks Laurent,

I'm French also except my direct family has not resided there since 1693.
Your listing is very complete and correct in my opinion.

Interested collectors should also keep in mind that none of the changes mentioned came into effect right at the begining of any given year so the features of any type can be found on examples depot dated the next year. In most cases the changes took place closer to the middle of year.

I have seen very very few M36 (dark green collar) tunics dated 1940, however I have seen very many M40's with dark green collars post issue added. I have also seen this on M42s and M43s.
The M42s probably had the shortest production life with around 6 to maybe 9 months production (by some makers). I believe that the pleats were dropped around October/November 1942 and the flaps were straightend around February/March 1943.

German Heer tunic variations have not really been cataloged and rigidly documented like most other Third Reich item types. There can still be found some very rare variations that can be found at low prices, even at major dealers, because they really don't know what they have. The down side is that most collectors don't know what they are either!

[Laurent]

Hello

Hi Phild

Thank you very much cousin
I add the known dates

M33
1 of April 1933 Official date for initial Feldbluse, no lining, 2 back hooks, collar made in the main material
M33/34
10 of December 1934 Official date, four hooks, no lining, collar made in "Feldgrau insignia material"
M33/35
10 of september 1935 Official date, no lining, collar made in "dark green insignia material"
M35/36
15 of december 1936 Official date, complete lining
M40
There isn't official date could be M39 in fact, Feldgrau collar in the main material
M41
26 of may 1941 Official date, "as above but with 6 instead of 5 front buttons"
M42
There isn't official date, "pleats dropped but flaps still pointed"
M43
There isn't official date, "pocket flaps now straight"

I have seen very very few M36 (dark green collar) tunics dated 1940, however I have seen very many M40's with dark green collars post issue added. I have also seen this on M42s and M43s.
Me too and you're totally right
The M42s probably had the shortest production life with around 6 to maybe 9 months production (by some makers). I believe that the pleats were dropped around October/November 1942 and the flaps were straightend around February/March 1943.
For me without documents there is only period photos to proove this fact, personally the first M43 I have seen are on 1944 photos but I am ready to change my opinion...
German Heer tunic variations have not really been cataloged and rigidly documented like most other Third Reich item types. There can still be found some very rare variations that can be found at low prices, even at major dealers, because they really don't know what they have. The down side is that most collectors don't know what they are either!
You're always right !

Amicalement
Laurent

[francis006]

Laurent,

agree but shouldn't it be better to say "partial" lining , not no lining ?

[Laurent]

Sorry

Houps sorry Francis,
You are right but I explain that my english and time were very short...
Hard to be corrected by a french friend...
Laurent

[francis006]

Houps sorry Francis,You are right but I explain that my english and time were very short....Hard to be corrected by a french friend... Laurent

[corporalSteiner]

I like it a lot. I purchased an M41 a few years ago it didn’t have the added pocket pleats but was made of the coarser wool. As for price these things have been going through the roof. I think I paid $700 for mine. IMO Heer stuff is still a good value and should continue to grow. I think a lot of SS collectors are getting priced out of the market and have turned to Heer, LW and KM. This is just a guess of course but I see no reason for it to slow down.

still seeing no reason?!