Panzer Captain boards Partial glow. Fake?

[Andre Groft]

The base cotton on these does not glow but the zig zag stitching does. I read the thread on Glowing but I still do not know what to think. Any opinions?

[seledotis1]

My opinion is probably good. I have seen cords under the bullion glow like that on some colonel and captain type boards that otherwise have perfect construction. What makes it hard to say for sure is that many do not glow. Also from my reading, we know Germans and Italians had developed Rayon and even a form of Nylon and they had very little cotton. Logically they were probably using more synthetics as the war went on. A black light is much more useful on American militaria.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[phild]

Officer shoulder boards have been well reproduced for a long time. One contributing factor to this fact may be that board’s made in the same general style were made by many companies (some no doubt from WWII) for both West German police and NVA and DDR police. It was no big deal for these companies to make any style of braid and underlay for fakers contracting them to do so.


As for these boards- there are several things I question past the glow of the inside connecting thread.

For one the underlay does not look PZ rose pink. German WWII Rose wool dye usually fluoresces bright orange by the way. I also don’t care for the weave of the underlay but I can not rule that characteristic out. It is unusual but not impossible to see the bright braid combined with a slip on attachment. Most were sew in or wing tabbed for white summer tunic. I also think that the rank pips are placed too close together but they could have been added anytime. My main concern is they are NOT PZ so what are they?

As for the UV glow, IMO fluorescence has nothing to do with synthetic material but has everything to do with phosphates used to brighten white fibers used in thread and fabrics. Phosphates have been used in some dyes since later 1800s but not widely used as brightners in paper and fabric until the 50s and 60s including detergent additives

[jmcm]

I have had boards the glow, but I don't like these

[DonC]

I am not a fan - they look almost NVA to me.


Don

[Andre Groft]

Analysis

As for all the comments so far,

One: I agree the color is not the right pink for Panzer
Two: the pips are too close together
Three: I have never seen NVA boards in wool
Four: they have the suspicious glowing connecting threads

Therefor I am inclined to think that they are copies of Heer boards
apparently using war time pips.

Thanks to all for the usual great input and analysis!

[tony james]

I am not a fan - they look almost NVA to me.


Don

I agree.these look like a type used by the east german army from 1956 to around 1958/59 .they had boards with wool backing but they seldom turn up.

[90th Light]

If they are WW2 then I wonder if they are Luftwaffe ?

The LW & SS used Velveteen as a backing material for some of their collar tabs, officer shoulder boards and strap/ cap piping. Is that backing material Velveteen ?

Also LW would explain a bright silver officer cord, button on shoulder board and possibly the colour hue of pink used.

Here are three images of one of my LW officer collar tabs with an interesting history made from Velveteen for comparison with,

Chris

p.s. white thread that glows is instantly considered post-war. However, in my experience if you wash, soak, dry-clean German WW2 items in modern laundry detergent then the whites threads will glow under a florescent light

[Gary B]

Velvet material was used in early Luftwaffe tabs but was changed to badgecloth since the velvet wore easily, was hard to clean and showed/got dirty easily.

Additionally, washing older items in modern day detergents will leave residue (Phosphates I believe) that will cause the items to glow.

Lastly, positioning of pips has nothing to do with helping to determine originality. They were placed by hand and a review of pictures of any number of boards will show they can be found in a infinite number of locations.


Gary B

[Johnny R]

Are the tongue ends pointed or rounded?

[muddyboots]

I had a set that was just like these but with one more pip and a number 5. The stitching across the bottom glowed and always made me uneasy.

[Andre Groft]

more analysis

They are not velveteen they are a fine wool felt. New pictures show the ends od the straps and more views. Thanks again guys.

[90th Light]

They are not velveteen they are a fine wool felt. New pictures show the ends od the straps and more views. Thanks again guys.

Velveteen might not be strictly the correct description. It could be more of a fine Moleskin

The Germans ran out of Cotton very early in the war because of blockades and a shortage of such a raw material in Germany. Thus they came up with a range of blends, ersatz and recycled ways of making such materials.

Proper Velveteen is usually made from Cotton or material blend such as a small amount of Silk with a high percentage of Cotton. However, for Germany in WW2, Cotton became rarer and rarer until it was almost non-existent,

Chris

[Tim O'Keefe]

First impression was LW but post war also is likely. Someone has tried to make the pips appear to have sunk into the boards. Not Pz by any stretch.,would pass.

[Johnny R]

The base color is in my opinion Bordo like Nebeltruppe but this was also used after the war by the STASI and fire police. My best guess is as was noted early DDR.