Wehrmacht Standarte Pole Top

[Berghof]

When you compare this one, with the others on this thread
The others are definitely recast copies being sold by people that have no clue

Kp520 purchased his example from me. I owned it. I have an extensive collection of high res photos of that top as well. Odly enough, that top was condemned as a fake by some keyboard specialists on this forum as well. That was one of the 3 benchmarks I used to compare against Mr. Kramers. There are countless minute details on this example that could not possibly be carried over from a recast....details that measure smaller than .003" (three thousands of an inch). Are you suggesting I have no clue? If so, please share photos of your authentic Heer pole top and enlighten me about aluminum casting variances and period manufacturing process deviation. It's time to cowboy up.


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[STLMatt]

Kp520 purchased his example from me. I owned it. I have an extensive collection of high res photos of that top as well. Odly enough, that top was condemned as a fake by some keyboard specialists on this forum as well. That was one of the 3 benchmarks I used to compare against Mr. Kramers. There are countless minute details on this example that could not possibly be carried over from a recast....details that measure smaller than .003" (three thousands of an inch). Are you suggesting I have no clue? If so, please share photos of your authentic Heer pole top and enlighten me about aluminum casting variances and period manufacturing process deviation. It's time to cowboy up.


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Berghoff
Cowboy up???
You got it bud

First off, the one posted by KP520 is a nice smooth detailed bird.
With no reason to doubt it as being original.
The others posted, have sand pebbles from being recast, and slag marks.
Third Reich aluminum is a lot smoother, and milkier than aluminum
Nowadays. So to match it is a trick all in itself.
The first things I look at on a bird are the head and feet.
When you compare KP520’s pic of the head and feet, it makes all the others on the link look like what they are....recast!!!
Go ahead and analyze all your special high resolution scans you want, the proof is in the details. And I can see them
Just fine from my phone screen.
I’m going to post 3 pics... the first one is of the one KP520 listed.
Look at the feet and head.
Then look at pic #2 and 3, when you keep going back and forth, you’ll see it.
You’ll see the clean vivid detail of the head, beak, etc
Then go back and look at the one that you have all of these high resolution photos of, and you’ll see the blown out head and beak with a lot less detail, and the feet that are all blown out in detail. Along with the spare slag marks on the right side of the neck, going down into the wing.
Along with the recast marks on the neck.
So you can call it an original all you want.
But it’s a recast, pure and simple.
Just like Mr Kramer’s
And like it was mentioned before, with a piece at this price, if all the boxes don’t get checked, walk away.
And that’s exactly what I would do with these birds on this post
Other than KP520’s
Cheers

[STLMatt]

KP 520 example
Full of detail

[STLMatt]

Lack of detail in the head
And recast marks
Don’t need high resolution to see this

[STLMatt]

Here is Mr Kramer’s bird that was on the Estand
No where close to a nice clean original in my opinion
They could of at least dug the sand out of it

[Berghof]

You’re killing me....Did you hold both examples in your hands? Because I did. Did you not read that I owned Kp520’s example, the one you’re referencing? They have the same identical look in person. Buffing, deburring and filing marks identical.

There are a couple things that you're not understanding. Photography, lighting and less pixels can impact look/detail appearance. You’re going to point out a piece of flashing and claim it’s fake? Did you know that humans made these? Hand finished? Do you think some exhausted factory worker may have missed a piece of flashing? Is it possible? Maybe there will be variances between tops? Don't confuse 1930's manufacturing with modern day production accuracy. Ive owned countless period pole tops and clearly understand what a modern day materials and fakes look like.

I don't mean to come across as jerky, but you're not my bud and you still haven’t cowboy’d up. I want to see pictures of the one you own. You clearly don’t understand what recast marks are. Since you’re the expert, you must have one in front of you that you’re referencing.

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[STLMatt]

You’re killing me....Did you hold both examples in your hands? Because I did. Did you not read that I owned Kp520’s example, the one you’re referencing? They have the same identical look in person. Buffing, deburring and filing marks identical.

You just don’t comprehend that photography, lighting and less pixels can impact look. You’re going to point out a piece of flashing and claim it’s fake? Did you know that humans made these? Maybe there will be variances between tops? Ive owned countless period pole tops and clearly understand what a modern day materials and fakes looks like.

You still haven’t cowboy’d up. I want to see pictures of the one you own. You clearly don’t understand what recast marks are. Since you’re the expert, you must have one in front of you that you’re referencing.

Haha
Your an idiot!
So I have to now own one, to know real from
Fake???
Lol
Expert???
Nah, I’m not. But I’m also not dumb enough to buy anything questionable.
But hey
Your the forum sponsor, you should know better
But keep typing paragraphs trying to polish a turd.
The rest of us are watching you dig yourself a deeper hole
Again.
They aren’t originals
This is a forum for opinions
And that is my opinion.

[Berghof]

Haha
Your an idiot!
So I have to now own one, to know real from
Fake???
Lol
Expert???
Nah, I’m not. But I’m also not dumb enough to buy anything questionable.
But hey
Your the forum sponsor, you should know better
But keep typing paragraphs trying to polish a turd.
The rest of us are watching you dig yourself a deeper hole
Again.
They aren’t originals
This is a forum for opinions
And that is my opinion.

You resort to insults by calling me an idiot. You just lost this argument. That tells me two things...you dug your own hole and you're out of your league. Good day.


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[STLMatt]

You resort to insults by calling me an idiot. You just lost this argument. That tells me two things...you dug your own hole and you're out of your league. Good day.


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Haha
Well....if the shoe fits.......
At least I give Kramer credit for asking questions, and taking it down when he found out his was not original.
Then there is you with your hundreds of “high resolution scans” and no clue!
So again Mr Forum sponsor........tell us again how slag, and blown out detail is from an original
We love hearing your infinite wisdom

[oldflagswanted]

Heer top HH auction ...

Will be interesting to see what it sells for.
......OFW

(below) Description: Polished cast aluminium alloy, slightly conical
shaft, lower end with two bevelled rings around both ends of shaft,
Wehrmacht eagle with national emblem surrounded by pointed
frame. Eagle faces front on both sides, whereas national emblem
on reverse is mirror image of obverse. Lower cup stamped with
manufacturer. Ca. 27.5 cm. Achtung - Versand aus den USA Zustand: II

[Berghof]

I don't know OFW. But I'm waiting for the usual suspects (folks that never held one) to show up and call this a fake because the inside of the pole cup isn't honed to perfection and there is excess "slag" (wrong name, correct term is flashing) around the talons...actually a solid chunk...Using the wrong criteria in determining authenticity. The Germans couldn't possibly have missed that. They never made mistakes. All workers were on their 'A' game 24/7. They were so advanced, for consistency and quality, they were the pioneers in the automated CNC milling machining process.

All sarcasm aside, unfortunately, the top is broken. We'll see what it brings. Thanks for resurfacing this thread OFW!!



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[Berghof]

Oh my lord, scalloping of aluminum from the mold on the feathers. How could this be? Must be a fake.

Sorry...couldn't resist. This top is clearly authentic. I'm just pointing out some of the inconsistencies in all of these examples. The manufacturer stampings differ, the texture inside the pole cup differs, amount of flashing left around the eagle differs, imperfections throughout the feathers differ. A lot of variables can impact the quality of the mold...purity of aluminum, temperature, humidity, debris left inside the mold...etc. They were hand finished when they came out of the mold. Flashing was removed by hand files, they went through a fine grit overall finish sanding, then different degrees of buffing. No two are going to be identical.


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