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**Militaria-Roman** · 11-26-2018, 04:24 PM

HELP - For one eagle - HELP

Hello to all WAF friends,
I saw this eagle on another forum, and I wonder if it is true...
On this other forum, he only has negative comments...
None members find it correct.
Maybe it'll be better here.
Thank you very much in advance.

Attached Files

**Militaria-Roman** · 11-26-2018, 04:26 PM

HELP - For eagle - HELP

Photo 3
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Hello to all WAF friends,
Thank you very much in advance.

Attached Files

**Militaria-Roman** · 11-26-2018, 04:28 PM

HELP - For eagle - HELP

PHOTO 4
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Hello to all WAF friends,
On this other forum, he only has negative comments...
None members find it correct.
Maybe it'll be better here.
Thank you very much in advance.

Attached Files

**planet** · 11-26-2018, 05:45 PM

It is a good early piece, but probably ground dug. Condition influences the value a lot in this case...
Best, Thomas

**Militaria-Roman** · 11-26-2018, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by planet View Post

It is a good early piece, but probably ground dug. Condition influences the value a lot in this case...
Best, Thomas

Thank you Thomas for your Help.
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But the others collectors find the back of the cross no good construction like a original one...
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Maybe, I don’t know

**glock26** · 11-27-2018, 03:57 AM

was also for sale here on our e-stand:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=982503

cheers, del.

**planet** · 11-27-2018, 10:38 AM

No problem with the back of swastika. It differs from usual construction. But got the same top in mint condition and have no doubt it is original.
Best, Thomas

**Militaria-Roman** · 11-27-2018, 03:19 PM

I don't know what to think, on other forums, 5 people (2 very big dealer) found all the negative points.
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But thank you for your answers.
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And no, I'm not going to buy it from a member who has less than 100 posts, and who comes from France... Too many bad experiences....

**Berghof** · 11-28-2018, 10:37 AM

This is just my opinion - I have to say that I'm not a fan. I had one of these in my possession and I wouldn't feel comfortable selling it. I also ran it by a couple of my peers (well known dealers) and all didn't like it as well. I took some good photos and kept them for reference.

My observations about the piece...again, just my opinions. You will never find a period photo or catalog with this specific example in it. You will see some that look somewhat similar, but never exact.

It looks like someone took an eagle, cut the wings to reposition them, re-braze welded it back to the body, grinded/sanded the high spots of the welds consequently removing the wing detail in those areas in the process (I circled those areas in the below pic). They then took an impression mold which this particular example is the product of. The head resembles one of the lochness monster (I have no other way to describe it) and not an eagle. Detail is washed out throughout the entire head/tail feathers. Also, a poor job braze welding the eagle to the legs. To me, its a fantasy piece...and a poorly executed one. It just doesn't look like craftsmanship of the period to me.

Here are some pics of the example I had.

.

Attached Files

**Militaria-Roman** · 11-29-2018, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Berghof View Post

This is just my opinion - I have to say that I'm not a fan. I had one of these in my possession and I wouldn't feel comfortable selling it. I also ran it by a couple of my peers (well known dealers) and all didn't like it as well. I took some good photos and kept them for reference.

My observations about the piece...again, just my opinions. You will never find a period photo or catalog with this specific example in it. You will see some that look somewhat similar, but never exact.

It looks like someone took an eagle, cut the wings to reposition them, re-braze welded it back to the body, grinded/sanded the high spots of the welds consequently removing the wing detail in those areas in the process (I circled those areas in the below pic). They then took an impression mold which this particular example is the product of. The head resembles one of the lochness monster (I have no other way to describe it) and not an eagle. Detail is washed out throughout the entire head/tail feathers. Also, a poor job braze welding the eagle to the legs. To me, its a fantasy piece...and a poorly executed one. It just doesn't look like craftsmanship of the period to me.

Here are some pics of the example I had.

.

Many thanks for the answer and for your time.
That’s exactly the same song, I have on other forums...
All collectors of this eagle typ think, it’s a fake one...
Many thanks.

**Stiles** · 11-29-2018, 11:57 PM

Hello Bergholf,

For comparison, this is a different eagle I have and not confirmed as authentic. I noticed it doesn’t have as much detail on the front of the head and chest but good definition on the back of the head, wings, tail and legs. The feed and stand are very similar to the one you posted.

If you look at the feet on mine, you can see how they were attached.

I appears that the early eagles may have been pre-nazi and were reworked by independent manufacturers who made their own masters and molds.

The separate wreath on mine is much more detailed.

Looking at an old catalog page. It appears wreaths were molded with a variety of interiors indicating the manufacturer had the capacity to add different components for different organizations.

The early NSDAP used band and organizations to promote themselves. Since every town had a band that needed eagles and every organization need them, companies who produced pole toppers and glockenspiels were probably scrambling to produce them how ever they could until the RZM standards were put in place.

This does not authenticate the subject eagle or mine. Just a thought.

Doug

Attached Files

**Stiles** · 11-29-2018, 11:59 PM

.

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**Stiles** · 11-30-2018, 12:08 AM

Here are some links to posts on the early eagles.

Two Piece from WAF – Great Reference
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=844631

This is a reference to another early non RZM eagle mounted directly to the wreath and swastika.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=pole+top

Another reference to a similar early non RZM eagle mounted on a more complex wreath and swastika.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=844631

A recent reference to a similar early non RZM eagle in gold.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=746946

**Berghof** · 11-30-2018, 10:15 AM

Thank you for the great pictures and links Stiles! I've reviewed these links before and your points are well taken. The example I had was used in some of those pictures in the links. It was originally on a wooden pedestal.

The detail on your example is fantastic and is light years ahead of the ones discussed in this thread. I see what you said about the lacking detail in the head/neck areas. The wreath and the back of the eagle is very detailed. Look at the color/tone and quality of the material used on your piece. A whole different ball game in my eyes.

If the example I had is authentic, I have to say it was the poorest quality product I've handled from the time. My benchmark is other pole top/Glockenspiel/schellenbaum ornaments that I've handled. Again, just my opinion. I haven't come across any of these that had direct veteran provenance and never saw one in a period photograph.

It may be real...it may not be. There are a few things going for it....like the wreath I've seen in a catalog, the pole cup looks good, but the eagle is a total butcher job that I can't get past. I can't imagine that passing quality control. We'll never know for sure unless someone can provide the smoking gun.

This is what's great about these forums...It gives us the ability to discuss, share photos, analyze, argue

and share knowledge.

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