Blutfahne (Blood Banner or Blood Flag) history

[Br. James]

Many thanks, OFW. Do you believe that the pole top made for the Blutfahne standard was gold-colored, or was it silver-colored? Black-and-white photos really don't add any solid information regarding the color of the piece, and as you say, color photos showing the BF are indeed rare.

I look forward to your follow-up notes; always interesting and helpful! Cheers,

Br. James

[ErichS]

Would it make sense that the 1929 RPT shield would also be fixed on the pole along with the martyrs plaque?

[oldflagswanted]

more Blood Flag fact and fiction ???

Would it make sense that the 1929 RPT shield would
also be fixed on the pole along with the martyrs plaque?

I've not observed that on the BF pole.
.

... Do you believe that the pole top made for the Blutfahne
standard was gold-colored, or was it silver-colored? Black-
and-white photos really don't add any solid information ...
Br. James

Likewise, I've not seen other period BF color photos
confirming a gold wreath top. A review of color film
footage might shed some further light on the question.
....
On the BF fiction front, just yesterday via Amazon I
got in a new 2016 "BLOOD FLAG" Martini Novel, ISBN
978-0-06-232896-0. On the dust jacket inside flap is ...
"a trail leading to a mysterious talisman - a feared
Nazi relic known as the Blood Flag. Soaked in the
blood of a fallen Nazi follower, the flag was displayed
by Hitler in ceremonies until it went missing at the
end of the war, turning it into a historic prize sought
by collectors and others with darker motives."
OFW

[Br. James]

Hi OFW,

Thanks for your most recent comment, and for sharing that clip of the consecration of standards...always nice to see it. My reference to "a gold wreath top" on the BF pole was in response to your note #27 below, where you provide what appears to be a color photo of that topper...and it looks like it was made in gold-color. I had not given any previous consideration to that topper being anything other than silver-colored prior to seeing your note. I do agree that "A review of color film
footage might shed some further light on the question." Many thanks again,

Br. James

[oldflagswanted]

Blood Flag color photo analysis ???

... My reference to "a gold wreath top" on the BF pole
was in response to your note #27 ..., where you provide
what appears to be a color photo of that topper...and it
looks like it was made in gold-color. I had not given any
previous consideration to that topper being anything other
than silver-colored prior to seeing your note. I do agree that
"A review of color film footage might shed some further light
on the question." Many thanks again,
Br. James

As previously stated, "Color photos of the Blood Flag are rare",
and when encountered IMO it is difficult to detect if they may
have been colorized from black & white originals. Maybe
some photo color histogram data might point to a revelation?
OFW

[oldflagswanted]

more BF photo analysis ...

In plane analysis based on known DE size.
OFW

[oldflagswanted]

BF on parade.

Blood Flag being trooped in the wind,
with sunlight showing blood stains.
SA giving salute between pass in review
marker pennants, either side of AH car.
OFW

[juoneen]

Looking closer at this photo above, I noticed the blood flag has a rather large center for the size of the flags red backround.
The flag is also seldom seen furled in the wind , but usually collapsed as it just hangs in most photos. So to me a windy day such as in the photo above is also revealing as far as what to look for as we all search in the future.
If only someone had befriended griminger before he died penniless, he just may have known more about who had it, and where it may have been taken since he was its exclusive handler, although I also feel if it were hidden for the future reichs , he may have been entrusted to also not divulge its true location if it still existed .
I also feel this was no accident that adolf only entrusted its bearer to be the same person for life as its holder. That way it could never be lost since only one had the authority to hold it in public, and if it had ever disappeared in its time, his life would be in jeopardy as also would his job of being its exclusive handler if it did not return to its storage or designated location .
Happy hunting , and no matter who finds it , it would have to be stored properly to not have bugs or moth's attack it by now. Lets just hope the insects don't get it first.
I know, as I have learned the hard way that flags need to be kept in space bags or the like to keep insects from being eaten through years of not checking on collected flags , thinking they are still stored as we put them away. Even moth balls and cedar will not stop some insects over many years of storage, so to all here who have flags and haven't checked on them in years, it just may be time to dig them out and be sure yours are properly protected . Bed bath and beyone has space bags at the best price in case you are searching for a place to purchase some .

[mrec27777]

jouneen, very good point on flag care/storage ! i would like to add ,that i recomend not to lay flags on floor ,ground ,grass,etc for any reason ...they can get contaminated with whatever is on these surfaces ,mites,tiny bugs ,debris,etc ..and when they decay will cause spotting ,staining and possible holes ...i know from experience !.. EC

[darrenbate]

Are space bags those plastic things that you suck out the air with a vacuum?
My flags are stored in the loft in plastic storage boxes. Would the bags be a better option? Thanks

[Br. James]

Thanks for adding your thoughts, Juoneen. I too have noticed what appears in hindsight to be the odd proportions of the Blood Flag, but of course when that flag was made there were no "standard proportions" in terms of SA or NSDAP banners. What also surprises me is how close to the eventual proportionality of NSDAP flags the Blood Flag actually was, especially the swastika itself, which is very close to the proportions we would see in swastikas made for banners and armbands in the late 1920s and onward till '45. The red field is indeed too small for the size of the white central disc, but the swastika is well-designed and balanced for the circle.

I would doubt that Jakob Grimminger had any knowledge as to the final outcome of the Blutfahne at and after war's end. He was the official flagbearer of the most famous banner in Nazi Germany, but he only had charge of it during special events when the flag was needed for some purpose or effect. The Blutfahne spent almost all if it's time in secure storage, either in the Hall of Honor in the Brown House or sheltered in the tunnel system beneath the NSDAP buildings on the Königsplatz. Grimminger checked it out when he was ordered to produce it at an event, and returned it to storage when the event was finished. It remains unknown how long the Blood Flag was last in storage prior to war's end.

Wikipedia tells us this about the end of the Blood Flag: "The Blutfahne was last seen in public at the Volkssturm induction ceremony on 18 October 1944 (not, as frequently reported, at Gauleiter Adolf Wagner's funeral six months previously). This ceremony was conducted by Heinrich Himmler and attended by Keitel, Guderian, Lammers, Bormann, Fiehler, Schepmann and Kraus. After this last public display, the Blutfahne vanished. Its current whereabouts are unknown and it is not even certain whether the flag still exists."

The "Volkssturm induction ceremony" mentioned above took place in Berlin, so Grimminger must have checked the banner out of it's storage in Munich and transported it with him to the Berlin event, and then returned it to storage in late October of 1944. The banner was not known to have "vanished" until more than six months later.

Perhaps too much has been made of the whereabouts of the Blutfahne following war's end? After all, the bodies of the sixteen "Martyrs of the Movement" were left in their bronze sarcophagi in the Temples of Honor in Munich, when those revered relics could have been removed to a more secure place, and the renowned Mahmal in the Feldherrnhalle was allowed to sit there to be defaced and pushed out of its archway onto the street below as a sign of the downfall of the NSDAP, when that unique statue could have been moved to a safer location. Since apparently none of the other flags or bronze statuary or eagles from the Brown House are known to have survived, perhaps the wishes of collectors will not allow the Blutfahne to rest in peace?

Br. James

[oldflagswanted]

Wikipedia wrong ??? When BF last seen ???

Wikipedia tells us this about the end of the Blood Flag:
"The Blutfahne was last seen in public at the Volkssturm
induction ceremony on 18 October 1944 (not, as frequently
reported, at Gauleiter Adolf Wagner's funeral six months
previously). ... The "Volkssturm induction ceremony" mentioned
above took place in Berlin, ...
Br. James

Wikipedia cites Brian L. Davis, Flags of the Third Reich (3):
Party & Police Units, Osprey Publishing, 2012, p.4., as the
source of the Blutfahne being last seen in public at the
Berlin Volkssturm induction ceremony on 18 October 1944.
I wrote Davis, but never received a reply before he died.

In WAF Blood Flag thread t=846523 post #11, I wrote that ...
"The late Brian Davis, in his 2012 flag book, seems to be
the cited source for the Oct 44 Volkssturm ceremony
"last seen" BF use. But no BF photos at that Berlin event
seem to exist (that I've seen). However, BF photos at the
Munich Wagner funeral do exist, and Davis cites that very
"last seen" location of the BF in his previous 2000 flag book ...
(below) Said to be Oct 44 Volkssturm ceremony photo, but
the oath flag is a NSDAP Kreis/Orts Leadership corner patch
type, not the BF."
OFW

[Br. James]

Thanks for this latest note, OFW; very helpful. If the last usage of the BF was for Adolf Wagner's funeral, that would have been most convenient, especially since Wagner was buried at the foot of the access stairway behind the Honor Temple closer to the Führerbau! So the BF would not have had very far to travel for it's last appearance at all, since it was stored beneath those very buildings!

Also I note that neither in the Wikipedia account of the Volksturm induction ceremony in Berlin on October 18, 1944 nor in the photos provided below is Gauleiter Joseph Goebbels present -- and the text below the photo tells us that Goebbels would have been the most prominent Nazi at such a ceremony taking place in his Gauleitung city, Berlin!

Br. James

[oldflagswanted]

BF 1923 appearance ???

... have noticed what appears in hindsight to be the odd
proportions of the Blood Flag, but of course when that flag
was made there were no "standard proportions" in terms of
SA or NSDAP banners. ...
Br. James

The Blood Flag as seen in period photos has it in the 1925
reworked format - nearly square, added DE cord & none of
the four edges shredded. Which begs the question, at least
to me, as to what the flag looked like during the 9 Nov 1923
Putsch and before? I note a period graphic which alludes to
a more damage BF than ends up in the 1925 form, see below.
OFW
(below) Cited Putsch period Blood Flag graphic, & original top?

[Br. James]

"The Blood Flag as seen in period photos has it in the 1925
reworked format - nearly square, added DE cord & none of
the four edges shredded. Which begs the question, at least
to me, as to what the flag looked like during the 9 Nov 1923
Putsch and before? I note a period graphic which alludes to
a more damage BF than ends up in the 1925 form, see below.
OFW"

My understanding is that the banner that became known as the Blutfahne was created specially for the events that were to begin on November 8th at the Bürgerbraükeller when Hitler declared that the National Revolution had begun. So the banner that was carried by SA member Heinrich Trambauer on November 9th, together with the black-white-red flag of imperial Germany and the banner of the Bund Oberland, was brand new at that time. I think the idea that the Blood Flag as pictured as a tattered banner was/is emotional hyperbole intended to evoke a sense of struggle which never really happened -- the three banners comprising the color guard were carried from the Bürgerbraükeller at the head of the procession for a period of no more than three-quarters of an hour when gunfire opened upon the revolutionaries and the swastika flag fell to the ground when the color guard dropped for cover. Andreas Bauriedl, a fellow SA member with Trambauer, was struck in the stomach by a bullet and he fell upon the swastika flag mortally wounded; the three banners were already lying on the ground as the color guard sought to escape the gunfire, with Bauriedl's blood forever staining the banner's fabric. The altercation lasted less than a minute, with most of the revolutionaries fleeing for safety.

According to Wikipedia in it's entry titled "Blutfahne: "There were two stories about what happened to the flag in the aftermath of the Putsch: one was that the wounded flagbearer Heinrich Trambauer took the flag to a friend where he removed it from its staff before leaving with it hidden inside his jacket and later giving it to a Karl Eggers for safekeeping. [Karl Eggers was a holder of the Coburg Badge, the Blood Order and the Golden Party Badge.]The other story was that the flag was confiscated by the Munich authorities and was later returned to the Nazis via Eggers. In the mid-1930s, after a myth emerged that Bauriedl himself had been carrying the flag, an investigation by Nazi archivists concluded that Trambauer was the standard-bearer and that the flag had been concealed by an SA man, not taken by the police, though they had confiscated other flags which they later returned. Regardless of which story was the correct one, after Adolf Hitler was released from Landsberg prison (after serving nine months of a five-year prison sentence for his part in the putsch), Eggers gave the flag to him."

In either scenario, I see no cause for this flag to receive the amount of damage depicted in the fanciful drawings which portray it in tatters!

I too would very much like to see any photos of the flag(s) as they were carried on November 9th. And I also wonder about the fabrication of the unique Blood Flag finial that adorned this banner whenever it was trooped publicly from the later 1920s onward. The topper in the drawing on the graphic was surely as fanciful as the shredded banner also depicted there.

Br. James