Flag top Pole for review

[Mp40Bran]

Hey guys I was wondering if this item looks authentic? Are these poles more on the common side or are they rare? Thanks!

[bodes]

Looks like it has a chance.....The swastika looks like it may have been repainted, as it should have a border around the black.....Is the base RZM'd?.....Bodes

[mrec27777]

is this topper marked on pole cup ? ..if not it is probably a repro ...should have rzm stamp + maker,date ... EC

[Br. James]

From what I see in your photos, the topper looks very nice...but I really can't see what I would want to see before making a response. I agree with the notes from Bodes and EC and would ask for closeups of the bird and the pole sleeve.

Cheers,

Br. James

[Mp40Bran]

It's unmarked . Is there still a chance? Should I get better photos?

[bodes]

It's unmarked . Is there still a chance? Should I get better photos?

It's probably not original....You won't want something you will have to make excuses for in the future....Bodes

[oldflagswanted]

Ditto ...

It's probably not original....You won't want something
you will have to make excuses for in the future....Bodes

Ditto that, without markings maybe a recent $32 retail repro.
OFW
(below) $32 version, with odd shown head and tail direction,
sales photo could be reversed to make swaz appear dexter.

[Br. James]

I agree. An unmarked PL pole top is not something I would want in my collection. The design for this 2nd model PL topper was introduced in 1938, and by that time the RZM was in full force; that means that the likelihood of a PL regiment being offered a topper that was illegally unmarked is probably nil. It is quite unlikely that an organization of political leaders would have found a supplier who offered them such a topper as this to be used with their highly-regarded regimental standarte.

My advice is to let it go and move on.

Br. James

[Stahlhelm]

I agree. An unmarked PL pole top is not something I would want in my collection. The design for this 2nd model PL topper was introduced in 1938, and by that time the RZM was in full force; that means that the likelihood of a PL regiment being offered a topper that was illegally unmarked is probably nil. It is quite unlikely that an organization of political leaders would have found a supplier who offered them such a topper as this to be used with their highly-regarded regimental standarte.

My advice is to let it go and move on.

Br. James

I totally agree.

Chris

[oldflagswanted]

This thread post #1, question #2, further comments ...

...Are these poles more on the common
side or are they rare? Thanks!

As per my recent post #4 in WAF thread t=717551,
"flag pole tops can be a whole category on their own."
As such addressing this threads post #1, question #2,
IMO, the NSDAP eagle pole top ("B") this thread subject,
along with their leadership corner patch flags, are the
most common of the trooping flags and tops. Next most
common would be NSBO ("C") & IC Veteran ("I"). Rarest
would be IMO the SS LAH cypher spear battalion top -
(not "A" below) as none are known to have survived WW2.
OFW
(below) 1935 German Company Catalog examples.

[Br. James]

Hi OFW,

I certainly agree with your comment that "flag pole tops can be a whole category on their own," and though I understand the logistical reasoning behind it, it is sad to see toppers included along with flags and banners, thus removing the toppers from easy sight.

While we don't see nearly as many examples of the 1st model PL Pole Top in comparison to the 2nd model, I personally find the 2nd model a much more pleasing design. To me, the 1st model PL topper appears too complex a design and looks 'clunky' -- IMHO, of course!!

Thanks for providing the topper chart from 1935 in your note, which brings a question for you: where would you place the HJ Bayonet Pole Top in terms of rarity?

Happy collecting, friends,

Br. James

[oldflagswanted]

pole top rarity ???

Hi OFW...
a question for you: where would you place the
HJ Bayonet Pole Top in terms of rarity?
Happy collecting, friends,
Br. James

Hello Br. James:
Interesting question. A superb pole top collection
is posted in WAF t=666377
The HJ Bayonet Top is shown as list #14, with rarity
rated (by me) per those listed as 12th in line. That
thread has the NSDAP Top rated as 4th most common
rather than "most" common as stated in this thread.
OFW
(below) by the numbers from WAF t=666377
1. generic use (IMO)___ 10. RNS (Agricutural)
2. NSKB (vet) ________ 11. NSRL (Sports)
3. RLB ______________ 12. NSDAP-2
4. generic ... ________ 13. DAF
5. DJ _______________ 14. HJ
6. generic ... ________ 15. RAD
7. NS-HAGO _________ 16. DAF-2
8. DAOV ____________ 17. NSKOV-1940 (vet)
9. NSSB (singing) _____ 18. DAF (Honor) ...
19. NSKOV (vet) ______ 20. generic ...
By rarity, common to rare (IMO) 13,16,2,12,
19,6,17,11,18,10,3,14,15,5,1,4,20,7,9,8.

and ...

[mrec27777]

OFW, nsdap-1 is not shown in ypur pics ... where would you rate it on your list ?...just wondering ...EC

[mrec27777]

As per my recent post #4 in WAF thread t=717551,
"flag pole tops can be a whole category on their own."
As such addressing this threads post #1, question #2,
IMO, the NSDAP eagle pole top ("B") this thread subject,
along with their leadership corner patch flags, are the
most common of the trooping flags and tops. Next most
common would be NSBO ("C") & IC Veteran ("I"). Rarest
would be IMO the SS LAH cypher spear battalion top -
(not "A" below) as none are known to have survived WW2.
OFW
(below) 1935 German Company Catalog examples.

NEVER mind OFW ..just read your previous thread ... EC

[mloppkit]

The design for this 2nd model PL topper was introduced in 1938, and by that time the RZM was in full force

While we don't see nearly as many examples of the 1st model PL Pole Top in comparison to the 2nd model, I personally find the 2nd model a much more pleasing design. To me, the 1st model PL topper appears too complex a design and looks 'clunky' -- IMHO, of course!!

- Br James..


Br James,
While I tend to agree with you and prefer the aesthetics of the "2nd Model" myself as well, I have a serious question that has puzzled me for years: Why do you refer to the M38 Political Pole Top eagle as the "2nd model" when there was an M27 Political Pole topper (I think this is the one you refer to as the "first model"), followed by what ErichS refers to as the M29 Political Pole Topper, and possibly the type "4" (generic) shown by OFW (usually marked RZM- DRGM or RZM-5) that may have also pre-dated the supposed "2nd model" as they are Nickel plated brass and not aluminium asis the later "model 2", would this not make the 1938 Pole topper a model "3" or "4"?

Best Regards,
Michael