Reichskanzlei tapestries

[robs]

How rare and desireable are these tapestries? I'm keen on securing an item from the Reich Chancellery, and this may be it.

Is there a good deal of evidence these are from the Reichskanzlei?

Thanks

[oldflagswanted]

oak leaves & swastika heavy "tapestries" ???

How rare and desireable are these tapestries? I'm keen
on securing an item from the Reich Chancellery, and this
may be it. Is there a good deal of evidence these are from
the Reichskanzlei?
Thanks

Hello robs:
I've never seen a period photo of these "tapestries"
in use. One example was used in the 1973 movie "Hitler:
The Last 10 Days" with Obi-Wan Kenobi, better known as
Sir Alec Guinness. He holds it up in close ups. Center has
oak leaves & swastika, the design being the bottom part
of the Third Reich National Eagle, called the Hoheitsadler.

(below) 1973 "H:TL10D" Hollywood movie promo photo...

[adlerfan53]

I too have thought about these tapestries but have a difficult time thinking they came from there considering what and who happened to the place. Is it possible that these could be props from the movie? I hope these would be authentic since they are really nice looking pieces. Suppose we do need photographic proof. Good luck.

[tgn]

They are authentic. A friend of mine has one acquired from a veteran YEARS ago.

What they are for and where they were used is a different unknown story...

Tom

[JoeW]

That's the question. Authentic what? One showed up at a shop here a number of years ago, but it was thick like a rug.

[robs]

Heres a still image, (courtesy of Thirdreicharts.com).

I don't have another reference but apparently also featured in a book called German War Booty vol. 1 by Thomas Johnson. The still image may come from a documentary shown on the History Channel about Joseph Goebbels and it showed one of these tapestries strewn on the floor of the Reichskanzlei with a couple Russian officers walking on it.

But like alderfan53, I wonder what happened to the other RK tapestries? And these tapestries seem to be the only type which circulate on the collectors market.

[Shawn Bern]

Hi everyone,

I will briefly share what I know about these tapestries. I have had the opportunity to have several of these in my hands and as the other gentleman stated, they are thick like rugs. Actually very thick and very heavy. From what I have seen there are two sizes that exist. One that is more square and one that is more rectangular in its dimensions. I know of about six or seven in advanced collections and has always been know as "reich chancellory" tapestries. The rectangular variety I have heard mentioned being from the brown house if memory serves me correctly? (although it might not, ha) As we all know, wear or age can be, and has been artificially applied however, on all the ones I have seen have had obviously fading that would be concurrent with 70+ years of wear and in no way in my opinion looks applied. One example that I know of, for what its worth, I know the owner has had for years and years. Like before the time something of this quality would have been faked with such detail and construction. HH had one at auction for 7,500 Euros last auction and it didnt sell, not for authenticity issues, just that 7,500 Euros is $9,752.00 and doesn't include the 23% commission and shipping charges they levy on you with the latter being out of control as well. I know someone that would sell theres less than half that??? Here is there description on this item from HH which in my dealings with them I personally have grown to put alot of stock in their often, well researched knowledge base (Caveat, no one is perfect though):

From the New Reich´s Chancellery in Berlin, heavy cotton construction, some soiling. Red field, with black-white border and gold edging. In centre, white disk with black swastika with gold trim, surrounded by gold embroidered oak leaf wreath. Finished with gold fringe. Reverse covered in red cotton with tag embroidered "RZM NSDAP der Obergebietsführer SA". Upper edge with broad hem, inside a sleeve for wall hanging rod. Size 195 x 220 cm.
See: Lt. Col. Thomas N. Johnson "World War II German War Booty" Columbia 1982, p. 56 ff. with illustration of an identical piece from war souvenirs of American Sgt. Ed. Lukow with his description of Reich´s Chancellery "...when I entered one of the rooms, there were two large swastika/gold oakleaf tapestries still hanging on one wall with a huge portrait of Fieldmarshall von Hindenburg between them...".
USA-Los

It also appear to be in LTC Tom Johnsons "World War II German War Booty" Columbia 1982, p. 56 ff. and has a picture with capture story?

I have a period picture that I would Post but I am a broke, jobless SOB that is in the process of transferring jobs so I have no money for extra circular activities such as this. I would be more than happy to send it to anyone that PM's me their email and feel free to repost away.

[Shawn Bern]

Hi Rob,

I have the same picture you already posted and in my opinion is quite convincing photographic evidence of their existence. Why in the photo its hard to make out the individual being Russian or anyone else, something tells me the bottom of those overcoats are a "communist cut". LOL Anyway, you ask about other styles of RK tapestries in existence to which I am aware of other designs at this location through period Post Cards displaying the inside of the building. I have not seen any Post cards displaying these though, in my opinion the photo is just as good as their is no mistaking what the guy is dragging across the ground. I also know of a couple of pieces that are tapestries that are actually about four times as large as the RK tapestry you posted and of a different design (bird & everything). So I guess my point is that yes, they did exist and will share some pics if I can get the permission by the owner.

[oldflagswanted]

more views ???

...still image may come from a documentary shown on the
History Channel about Joseph Goebbels and it showed one
of these tapestries strewn on the floor of the Reichskanzlei
with a couple Russian officers walking on it. ...I wonder what
happened to the other RK tapestries? ...these tapestries seem
to be the only type which circulate on the collectors market.

robs:
Interesting "on the floor" photo. Noted
another view on the WAF in t=447920.
OFW
(below) t=447920 post #39, from the Russian FSB Museum.

[oldflagswanted]

another example ...

...I wonder what happened to the other RK tapestries?
...these tapestries seem to be the only type which circulate
on the collectors market.

...and another example from elsewhere online...
OFW
(below) "...banner removed form the RK BERLIN Germany
Chancellery War Room. ...Unframed size: 4'-2" L x 4' H
(with fringe 4'-4"). Frame dimensions: 57" L x 62" H. From
the Dick W. "Duffy" Klaer provenance (as printed in Treasure
Trove: The Looting of the Third Reich, page 189): "As for the
tapestries -- they were hanging in the war planning room of
the Chancellery. There were six of them - two each on the
side walls and one each (smaller ones) on the end walls. The
room was about 14' by 28', there was a very large, long table
and about 20 chairs in the room all of which were broken all to
hell by the bombings or busted up by the Russian soldiers. Near
the end of the war, I was teaching at the Infantry Officer's School
at Fountainbleau, France. From there I took the last class of
graduates to Potsdam where we were responsible for setting up
the Potsdam Conference. It was at the Conference where I met
two Russian officers who took me to Berlin before the Americans
were allowed - so you see I got first crack at a lot of Nazi memorabilia.
/s/ Duffy Klaer, Marcellus, MI."
PS/ Odd that with all the known RK photos, no views of
this swastika tapestry "war planning room" exist. OFW

[paulj]

These have been around as long as I have been collecting...almost 50 years.

Here's a thread with a post about the one with the large SA RZM tag http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...a+flags&page=5 It was at the SOS last time and I believe the dealer consigned it to HH.

I seem to recall a photo of an inner courtyard of either the Reichskanzlei or another building with these hung as window banners... but don't ask me where...it's been years.

In any case, correctly or incorrectly, they have always been identified as being from the Reichskanzlei. The Russian image seems to prove that at least one was there and no doubt others were as well, perhaps in storage. The lack of photo evidence is annoying but as any historian knows, "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

[oldflagswanted]

from 2008 WAF t=225672

These have been around as long as I have been collecting...
almost 50 years. ...one with the large SA RZM tag t=225672
...correctly or incorrectly, they have always been identified as
being from the Reichskanzlei. ...lack of photo evidence is annoying...

From the cited 2008 WAF t=225672 thread... from Bob Coleman,
"Although These Tapestry Wall Hangings Have Been Always
Attributed To The Reichs Chancelory, I Have Always Believed
That These Were Found In High Level Political Offices Throughout
The Reich. One Reason Being The Building Was Severly Burned.
Secondly, The Soviets Were Very Tight On Allowing Other Allied
Forces From Taking Souvenirs From Their Sphere Of Influence."
(below) t=225672 Phil Borchert photos...

(below) Closeup of the wreath.

(below) RZM Tag on the reverse.

(below) size of RZM Tag on the reverse.

[fredswiss]

I knew Frank Quinn when I lived in Chicago and saw his tapestry and all the other items he was able to purchase from the veteran, PVT. Ed Lukow (see Tom Johnson's War Booty book as mention above by Shawn Bern). The story Frank related to me is exactly as described in the book (I.e that Pvt. Lukow told him he acquired the tapestry from the RK...that 2 of them were hanging on a wall between a portrait of Von Hindenburg, etc.). The conversation I had with Frank occurred prior to the publication of Johnson's War Booty book.

[oldflagswanted]

more examples ???

Yet another example from elsewhere online.
IMO these are NSDAP high rank podium banners.
OFW
(below) oddly stained between swastika arms, no reverse tag.

[fredswiss]

The last one shown may well be a podium banner but it appears to be considerably smaller than the one at the beginning of this thread and the last one shown also does not appear to have the gold bullion fringe. The one shown in Johnson's War Booty book appears to be too large to be a podium banner.....Just my opinion.