SS Sturmbannfahne

[oldflagswanted]

Ss sbf iii/100 ???

ended the HH auction already up?
was that 3/100 flag sold?
best
seb.

Hello seb:
SS SBF III/100 listing still appears to be available.
OFW
(below) Cited online SS SBF listing, at a bargain price IMO.

[sans probleme]

if I understand correctly, the flag at Kristian, MINT was there some time?
I want a flag for its purchase, I'm looking into a better state, in case someone knows a sale?
thank's for your reply
best regards
TEDDY

[Ojoneso]

Teddy,

may you should check out my one.
I still have it

Cheers

[Doug Kenwright]

New Addition SS Standarte III/97

Hi Gents, I wasn't sure if this particular standarte had been added to the list of survivors, but here is III/97, found at Dachau Concentration Camp upon its liberation, and now in the collection of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

From Museum: pics property of USHMM


Date after 1945 April 29 (found)
Accession Number 2006.449.1
Language English
French
Geography found : Dachau (Concentration camp); Dachau (Germany)
Brief Narrative Nazi flag with over fifty signatures of US soldiers taken from an office at the Dachau concentration camp in 1945 by Everett A. Fox, a soldier in the United States Army, 45th Infantry Division. Fox participated in the liberation of Dachau by the United States Army on April 29, 1945. The flag was signed by members of the 158th Field Artillery Battalion and the 45th Infantry Division of the United States Army soon after Fox acquired it. The flag was signed by more soldiers at a reunion of the 45th Infantry Division, circa 1990.
Provenance The flag was donated to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in 2006 by Chris A. Thomas, the grandson of Everett A. Fox.
Legal Status Permanent Collection
Classification Identifying Artifacts
Category Flags
Object Type Flags (lcsh)
Dimensions overall : 49.000 x 55.000 in. (124.46 x 139.7 cm.)
Inscription front, inside white circle, ink and marker : multiple solder's signatures, addresses, remarks
Materials overall : wool, cotton, lurex (tm), thread, ink
Corporate Name United States. Army. Infantry Division, 45th--History.
Topical Term Soldiers--United States.
World War, 1939-1945--Campaigns--Western Front.
World War, 1939-1945--Concentration camps--liberation.
Conditions on Access No restrictions on access
Conditions on Use No restrictions on use
Contributor Subject : Everett A. Fox
Biography
Everett A. Fox served in the 45th Infantry Division of the United States Army during World War II. Fox participated in the liberation of the Dachau concentration camp in Germany on April 29, 1945.

Credit Line United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Collection, Gift of Chris A. Thomas
Record Type Object
Physical Description Rectangular, red cloth flag with white cloth circles affixed to the center on both sides. There is a black cloth swastika on each white circle. The white circle on the front has 56 signatures, addresses, and phrases inscribed in pen. A black patch with a silver cord border and text, III/97, in silver, is attached to the upper left front corner and the upper right back corner. There is black fringe with silver accents on 3 sides, and ripped, red cloth mounting loops along the hoist side.
Link to Collection Everett A. Fox collection
2006.449

[oldflagswanted]

II/97 SS-SBF addition to list.

...III/97...Rectangular, red cloth flag with ...56 signatures...
III/97, in silver, is attached to the upper left front corner
and the upper right back corner. There is black fringe with
silver accents on 3 sides...red cloth mounting loops along
the hoist side...

Hello DK:
Nice photo confirmed addition to the listing, thanks.
OFW
--------------------[ Surviving Rare Flags ]----------------------
SS-SBF (Sturmbannfahnen), count at ~27 SS battalion flags
S1. I/5, 1st pattern, formerly *OFW via Klenau Munich Auction
S2. Signal Bn 4, 2nd pattern, *=photo confirmed, OFW c.1975
S3. Signal Bn 14, 2nd pattern, *book, held by visor hat guy.
S4. I/17, 1st pattern, was II/17 per t=414513,*EA on WAF
S5. III/43, 1st pattern, *for sale online at $12K-USD
S6. II/47, 1st pattern, *O-J on WAF
S7. III/55, *walker flag book, sold 5K Euro c.2004 t=59249
S8. III/59, * believed to be one sold in H-Historica Auction
S9. II/72, 2nd pattern, *OFW c.1975
S10. III/82, 1st pattern, *Silesien, sold 1986 $2600
S11. I/101, 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
S12. III/101, 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
S13. III/104, 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
S14. I/106, 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
S15. III/106, 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
S16. I/107, 2nd pattern, *OFW c.1975, traded off
S17. III/2+Skull (TK-SS), 2nd pattern, *BH on WAF
S18. III/4+Skull (TK-SS), 2nd pattern, *ex-DS on WAF
S19. II/SS2 (VT-SS), 2nd pattern, *OFW observed
S20. I/103, 2nd pattern, $2.5K Manion 1994. *Silesien-WAF
S21. I/16, 1st pattern - center & fringe, *OFW observed (-*-)
S22. II/16, 1st pattern - center & fringe, *RH observed (-*-)
S23. Signals Bn 10 (Nachrichten), 2nd pattern, *paulj on WAF
S24. I/45, "Neisse" (Oppeln), 1st pattern - fringe, *paulj on ".
S25. III/16 "Breslau", 1st pattern, ^paulj post #157, (-*-)
S26. III/6, "Berlin-Charlottenburg", 1p fringe, 2p swaz, *Weitze [1]
S27. II/38, "Alpenland Graz", odd fringe, 2p swastika, *HH [2]
S28. III/100, "Richenburg", 2nd pattern, *OFW post #177 t=414513
S29. III/97, 2nd Pattern, but fringe not shown, *Doug Kenwright
(-*-) = corner patch on one side, removed by Czech movie studio?
Note [1] = See originality concerns in t=414513 post #157 OFW
Note [2] = See originality concerns in this thread post #241 OFW

[paulj]

Interesting history of the III/97 flag. The unit was actually from Eger in the Sudetenland. It would be interesting to learn how it got to Dachau.

[oldflagswanted]

SS SBF use and materials ???

Interesting history of the III/97 flag. The unit was actually from
Eger in the Sudetenland. It would be interesting to learn how it
got to Dachau.

Hello paulj:
Interesting question indeed. Mollo SS book series says General SS
unit flags were used by later formations of Waffen, VT & TK units.

Another post #184 question concerns cited "Materials overall :
wool, cotton, lurex (tm), ..." Wonder how that was determined?
OFW

[Doug Kenwright]

OFW,

They may be referring to the tape that affixes the fringe to the standard...

[paulj]

Regarding Sturmbann III of SS Standarte 97, I tried researching the unit as well as its SS Abschnitt history but found nothing of consequence.

Eger, Standarte 97's base city is located in the Czech-German border area about 134 miles from Dachau. A reassignment in some auxiliary SS or police role later in the war could have moved Standarte 97, or at least Sturmbann III, in whatever form it existed during the later war years, that could explain its presence in the Dachau camp or vicinity along with its flags.

[oldflagswanted]

General SS late war TK auxiliary ???

Regarding Sturmbann III of SS Standarte 97, I tried researching the unit
as well as its SS Abschnitt history but found nothing of consequence.

Eger, Standarte 97's base city is located in the Czech-German border area
about 134 miles from Dachau. A reassignment in some auxiliary SS or police
role later in the war could have moved Standarte 97, or at least Sturmbann
III, in whatever form it existed during the later war years, that could explain
its presence in the Dachau camp or vicinity along with its flags.

Hello paulj:
Interesting research. Maybe this III/97 SS-SBF is evidence
that the General SS late in the war became TK KL auxiliary troops.
OFW

[paulj]

It's also interesting to note the number of flags from the Czech Film Studio inventory. All of mine came from there, including one of the Breslau SS Standarte 16 flags (curiously, all had a corner patch removed from one side). I wonder how many there were. Mine all came from Silesian units.

A middle man I knew who brought out a SS Reiter DE indicated among others circa 1989 said he saw a stack of 20 DE standards.

[oldflagswanted]

Czech Studio movies ???

It's also interesting to note the number of flags from the Czech
Film Studio inventory. All of mine came from there, including one
of the Breslau SS Standarte 16 flags (curiously, all had a corner
patch removed from one side). I wonder how many there were.
Mine all came from Silesian units.

A middle man I knew who brought out a SS Reiter DE indicated
among others circa 1989 said he saw a stack of 20 DE standards.

paulj:
WOW, 20 DE standards, now that would be a super collection,
even with the post WW2 added Czech Film Studio markings.

On the SS-SBF's, I note I/16, II/16, & III/16, i.e., list (-*-).

Were any Czech movies actually made with these DE's or SBF's?
......OFW.......

[paulj]

The I/45 and Signal 10 also are film studio finds.

I presume the DE's etc were used in films. The studio had tons (literally) of equipment, uniforms, weapons, and everything else imaginable. Apparently, the Soviets collected all manner of material to make war films. I did see a late 80's film that was part of a series about a castle in Bohemia. The episode I saw took place at the end of WW2... the retreating Germans arrived and the old princess told the butler to get rid of the uniforms. He then appears coming down the stairs, arms clutching a dozen or so original Imperial general's uniforms of all types. The Germans are outfitted with unissued condition equipment, including Kubelwagen and motorcycles etc.

[Alfred.R]

The I/45 and Signal 10 also are film studio finds.

I presume the DE's etc were used in films. The studio had tons (literally) of equipment, uniforms, weapons, and everything else imaginable. Apparently, the Soviets collected all manner of material to make war films. I did see a late 80's film that was part of a series about a castle in Bohemia. The episode I saw took place at the end of WW2... the retreating Germans arrived and the old princess told the butler to get rid of the uniforms. He then appears coming down the stairs, arms clutching a dozen or so original Imperial general's uniforms of all types. The Germans are outfitted with unissued condition equipment, including Kubelwagen and motorcycles etc.

statni film depot,was the best pleace to find this stuff,i wonder all the time how the item was "stolen ' from them,as so far i know no one has made a official sale back

[oldflagswanted]

more about Statni Film ...

The I/45 and Signal 10 also are film studio finds...
Apparently, the Soviets collected all manner of
material to make war films. ...The Germans are
outfitted with unissued condition equipment...

Interesting. Noting other related threads t=511931 ,
where on Youtube shows a very brief segment of the
flags, and as cited in t=551279 and elsewhere online.
I'm looking forward to checking out their WW2 prop films.

(below) As cited Statni Film reference ... (google translation)
Czechoslovak state film was a state enterprise existing in Prague 5 at
Barrandov during 1948 to 1956 was then replaced by a state enterprise
Czechoslovak film . Barrandov existed Barrandov Film Studios in 1931 under
the name AB. About the building and the surrounding grounds are deserved
family Havel (here especially Miloš Havel ). Since 1933 there was the first movie.
In the years 1941 - 1944 the company AB Havel replaced by Pragfilm subject fully
and Nazi administration area was expanded to other halls. After the liberation
of Czechoslovakia was complex Decree No. 50/1945 President E. Beneš nationalized
and in 1948 was created Czechoslovak state film company. From the jurisdiction of
the company were removed in 1957 cinemas have been set up other businesses,
especially Central rental movies . States subject to the Czechoslovak state film was
canceled and replaced by a similar state enterprise Czechoslovak film. After 1990,
the film industry was privatized.
And as noted: "When the Soviet Union collapsed waves of odd WW2 items came
westward, like dozens of luger holsters or heaps of Panzer uniforms and caps.
Obviously, word reached the curators of museums, warehouse managers etc, that
the stuff had value and they were sitting on gold mines. In the euphoric Wild West
that was the post-Soviet Russia, anyone with access to something that could be sold,
sold it. Statni Film was just the tip of the iceberg."