SS Sturmbannfahne

[J. Wraith]

J.W.:
Wondering if your "3 SS Fahne" (Lager flags?) were wool and
also screen printed? When you say "white bunting" are you
speaking of the pole flying header or the emblem in the field?
As for myself I'm not a fan of sewn onto cotton SS bolt flags.
See t=674625 for a photo IMO of a screen printed SS Lager.
Per the t=427262 SS-SBF listing, II/38 would be a new entry,
so looking forward to seeing some photos of that flag. On
the "another unit" which "traded hands", what was that SS-SBF?
OFW
(below) t=674625 upside down flown SS Lager flag photo with comments.

I can only remember seeing one multi piece SS fahne I liked, two of these were screen printed on what appears to be the same material as on your flag. And yes I mean the white bunting around the hoists. One was a heavier wool though and did have sewn on runes, but it was right in my mind and not what I had typically seen in the past or even today with sewn together pieces.

The last one I saw I locked up sight unseen from a guy in Europe and he sends me photos of it hanging off one of his doors and apologizes for the crappy photos. They were terrible photo's but as soon as I opened them I knew it was real and probably the best example I had ever seen. It was just crazy and I could smell it through my monitor and that is the way these are, you just know instantly. That banner was over the top and doubt that will ever be shown. These are never standard but if your out there and handling them you get a feel for them over time, when you hit a real one its just a slap in the face.

The II/38 was in Hermanns last catalog, it looks o.k but not sure I am in love with it. I can pull the photos sown but no posting ability but a U.S lot and I thought it would sell at that number to be honest. Almost irrelevant for valuation that I am looking at but giving it full honors considering it did not sell and adding the commission.

[oldflagswanted]

Ss-sbf ii/38 ...

...II/38 was in Hermanns last catalog, it looks o.k
but not sure I am in love with it. ...I thought it would
sell at that number to be honest. ...

J.W.:
Thanks for the SS-SBF II/38 referral.
Interesting that the flag has a maker's
label, first I've seen in that regard.
OFW
(below) The cited SS-SBF info...
"Lot Nr. 6828, SS unit standard "II/38" ...Alpenland
(Graz) Dimensions 120 x 135 cm. Double-sided red wool
field with a multi-piece black and white cotton centre. Upper
corner features black doeskin unit panel (20 x 15 cm) on
each side with hand-woven marking "II/38" of silver twist
piping. Flag bordered in 2 cm silver wire, black cotton fringe
on three sides and five aluminium rings, each marked "RZM
M3/40/37", on the fourth. Manufacturer's label "Fahnenrichter
Gegr.1864.Köln 8." A few holes and stains. Rare. USA lot,
Condition: II Limit: 4300 EURO"
Rings may have been added, as there are only 5, not 7.
Also fringe is odd, a not seen before black/silver variation.
OFW

[Robert H]

I really wonder about 5 vs 7 rings.
Just found some month ago a original Sturmbann Fahnenstange.
Untouched but it got 5 original rings screwed in.
The rings where there since ever, never found a locic on it though.

[paulj]

That II/38 flag is quite a curiosity. I would question the fringe and tag. Perhaps the corner patches were removed from a relic flag and the rest reconstructed from an original flag body that may or may not have had an original tag on it. I have a couple of flags in the standard Tragfahne format with rings but no corner patches. Adding some odd black and silver fringe, original patches and voila, one has an SS Sturmbannfahne of sorts. Perhaps that's also the reason for the relatively cheap estimate and the fact that it did not sell.

SS Standarte 38 was apparently formed in 1931 http://www.axishistory.com/about-ahf...8-ss-standarte

Based on that date, one could speculate that SS St. 38 would have carried a first pattern flag. It's an Austrian Standarte and, if someone had documentation to prove it, perhaps one could argue a local variant to justify the fringe and the 5 rings. However, I would think that all SS flags were produced by the same makers and relatively uniform when it comes to the components like fringe, corner patch embroidery, etc.

In any case, this one cannot to considered in the discussion of value. To me it's a Frankenstein, as they say.

[Ojoneso]

Hello,


is the flag already sold?
Or does it comes up next auction ?
Looks a bit wired the construction with patch and flag.

Cheers

[Robert H]

III/45 is currently offered with pole @ HH 4400 Euros plus comission
III/100 $7250

[oldflagswanted]

SS battalion flags for sale ???

III/45 is currently offered with pole @ HH 4400 Euros plus comission
III/100 $7250

Hello R.H.:
Very interesting. I just looked but didn't see
them listed. Do you have the URL address?
OFW

[Texasuberalles]

I owned lll/l100 (Richenburg) fom the late 70's to '86 or '87. It was dead mint with marked aluminum rings.

It had been brought out of the woods in the 70's with another SS flag and two SS NCO swords at the Weatherby Arms Museum (right across the street from the Astrodome in Houston).

Still have the sword, the flag went to a collector in Oklahoma as i recall.

[oldflagswanted]

more on SS-SBF III/100

I owned lll/l100 (Richenburg) fom the late 70's to '86 or '87.
It was dead mint with marked aluminum rings.

It had been brought out of the woods in the 70's with another
SS flag and two SS NCO swords at the Weatherby Arms Museum
(right across the street from the Astrodome in Houston).

Still have the sword, the flag went to a collector in Oklahoma as i recall.

Tua:
Thanks for posting the SS-SBF III/100 background info.
Do you have any photos? What was the other SS flag?
OFW

[Texasuberalles]

Tua:
Thanks for posting the SS-SBF III/100 background info.
Do you have any photos? What was the other SS flag?
OFW

I only owned the one flag and one sword. I saw all 4 items but picked the best two items (one flag and one sword) Sadly I don't recall the number on the other flag.

[Texasuberalles]

I owned lll/l100 (Richenburg) fom the late 70's to '86 or '87. It was dead mint with marked aluminum rings.

I don't think the lll/100 flag at Oakleaf is the same flag as I had years ago. Mine had no mothing whatsoever. I can't believe that someone who would get a relic like that would let the moths get to it as the Oakleaf flag has.

That tells me that there at least two of them......

[oldflagswanted]

about wool and moths ...

I don't think the lll/100 flag at Oakleaf is the same flag
as I had years ago. Mine had no mothing whatsoever.
I can't believe that someone who would get a relic like
that would let the moths get to it as the Oakleaf flag has.
That tells me that there at least two of them......

Tua:
Interesting comments. I do know that wool is
like candy to moths. I had a storage bag full of
wool berets, and put a Gulf War Iraqi beret in
the same bag, and sadly later found them all
badly eaten up. I was shocked how quickly that
happened. I learned that such a storage mistake
can very easy destroy mint wool items. One reason
why some collectors don't like to collect cloth items.
OFW
(below) Cited wool SS-SBF III/100 with mothing.
(below-2) Includes nice RZM M3/40/39 (1939) rings.

[mrec27777]

if i was a betting person ..i would say it"s the same flag TEXAS had years ago ,flag is perfect ,except those nasty bug bites .... EC

[mrec27777]

[QUOTE=oldflagswanted;6110064]Tua:
Interesting comments. I do know that wool is
like candy to moths. I had a storage bag full of
wool berets, and put an Gulf War Iraqi beret in
the same bag, and sadly later found them all
badly eaten up. I was shocked how quickly that
happened. I learned that such a storage mistake
can very easy destroy mint wool items. One reason
why some collectors don't like to collect cloth items.
OFW
(below) Cited wool SS-SBF III/100 with mothing.
(below-2) Includes nice RZM M3/40/39 (1939) rings.
[/QUOTEyears ago ,my sister brought me back a nice wool sweater from bolivia ..i iput it in box ..no mothballs ..3 years later i opened box ..sweater fell apart in a million pieces ...yes .bad storage can ruin a nice item ..EC

[Ojoneso]

ended the HH auction already up?
was that 3/100 flag sold?

best

seb.