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Unknown DE Funeral Standarte?

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    #16
    about your DE like banner ???

    Originally posted by Jeff Nichols View Post
    ...approx. 29X26 inches ...fringe similar to DE standarte ...White satin
    material circle on both sides with a silver bullion boarder ...backside says ..."NATSOZ.DEUTSCHERPARTE" on top and "STURMADELT" on
    the bottom... Has anyone ever seen something like this
    ...Any help would be greatly appreciated. ...Jeff
    Hello Jeff:
    Sorry to tell you, but IMO it is a Pakistani made fake, as noted by
    the modern fringe, non-squared bottom corners, center disk edge
    same as on other known Pakistani made DE banners, and swastika
    arms with typical Pakistani heavy wire bullion thread loosely applied.
    Such DE banners with whatever wording you desire, can be had for
    around a couple hundred dollars, sometimes even with free samples.

    sigpic
    .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

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      #17
      Thanks for your opinion there Oldflagswanted, but I have seen the Pakistani fakes and plenty of them and this does not even compare to them, the pics do not do this justice, especially coming from the deceased estate along with several daggers and other cloth insignia,the detail and workmanship on this is incredible! If an 18 year old walked into a gun show with this it still does not screem "Pakistan." Also the bullion is not loosely applied, that is from storage wear and handling, the other side is very tightly woven. As i said the vet had it folded with the loose bullion side exposed to whatever elements it encountered. I did not post this for opinions,known collectors and dealers in the hobby have seen it and are comfortable with it, I posted it to find out what it is, but I respect your opinion.
      Thanks...Jeff

      Comment


        #18
        more about your DE banner ???

        Originally posted by Jeff Nichols View Post
        ...I have seen the Pakistani fakes and plenty of them and this does not even compare to them... I did not post this for opinions, known collectors and dealers in the hobby have seen it and are comfortable with it, I posted it to find out what it is, but I respect your opinion. Thanks...Jeff

        <CENTER>Jeff:
        Basis of my previous posting about your banner, is that it does actually match many aspects of the known circa 1970's Concord California Delta International retailed Pakistani made DE banners. Yours exactly matches
        the same thick fringe and center circle "different strands" edge embroidery work. Likewise, over my ~40 years of collecting flags I've also seen another oddly lettered DE banners like yours, one had "SAAL-SCHUTZ" on the lower backside, this was also in the 1970's during my many visits to a retail militaria shop in Santa Monica California. Just thought you might like to know more about why IMO your DE banner is considered to be a fake. It
        would likewise be interesting to hear what Ulric of England thinks about
        your banner - the UK author of the "Deutschland Erwache" flag book.

        </CENTER>
        sigpic
        .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

        Comment


          #19
          Oldflagswanted, I understand what you are saying,Iappreciate the input here. Two things that trouble me here is I have seen those 1970's Pkistan ones, and this one doesnot compare to those quality wise. Also right out of the deceased vets estate along with other items, it does not make sense. Also this is the only one I have ever seen in my 30yrs. of collecting, if this was made in Pak. wouldn't there be a 100 of'em out there? Perhaps the Pakistan ones made were copied from ones like this. Thanks...Jeff

          Comment


            #20
            about fake DE banners ???

            Originally posted by Jeff Nichols View Post
            Oldflagswanted, I understand what you are saying,Iappreciate the input here. Two things that trouble me here is I have seen those 1970's Pkistan ones, and this one doesnot compare to those quality wise. Also right out of the deceased vets estate along with other items, it does not make sense. Also this is the only one I have ever seen in my 30yrs. of collecting, if this was made in Pak. wouldn't there be a 100 of'em out there? Perhaps the Pakistan ones made were copied from ones like this. Thanks...Jeff
            <CENTER>Jeff:
            Again, actually your DE does "compare" to the cited c.1970's Pakistani
            DE fakes for the reason previously stated - i.e., type fringe, circle edge,
            etc., and as already said, I've seen oddly lettered fake DE's before -
            anything can be special ordered, and even on a free sample basis where
            further example production never occures. Please don't take this wrong,
            but as noted elsewhere on the WAF (post 3139837), you have already
            been told at the SOS that your DE banner is a fake, but in this case I am
            trying to explain to you why. I've had a long time specific interest in DE
            banners, as seen on pages 399-402 of the 1996 Ulric/Bender DE Book.
            If you don't have a copy feel free to contact me by direct email for more
            information about that superbly done reference book.
            <h1>OLDFLAGSWANTED</h1>


            </CENTER>
            sigpic
            .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

            Comment


              #21
              Thanks Oldflags, however I was not told it was a fake at the SOS, Helmut Weiss said it was made probably in 1947 or so for the movie industry by the same people who made them wartime. Neil Hardin said it was very old but he feels it was made in the 50's and he could not tell me a reason why he thought this,he just said it is. After being told this what would you think? It lead me to think that they don't know what it is. The other two dealers I mentioned had no problem with it as did a few collectors. We just did not know what it is, it has nothing to do with a true DE standarte,the DE words are just being used here. Anyway how would this end up in the deceased vet's estate? It is just strange to me. Anyway I appreciate your help here oldflags....Thanks...Jeff

              Comment


                #22
                I've seen another one of a kind oddball but well made DE standard in the late 80s--I didn't photo it but as I recall, the wording was done in yellow embroidery in Fraktur letters, and the legend on the reverse, at least, was for a specific group. The white areas didn't glow under UV, and other than the lettering, was made more like an original DE. With this example, I agree with OFW that the pattern of bullion and style of embroidery is very similar to an 80's vintage Delta example. At the time they were selling for around $300 I believe, so I would assume not many were made or sold. Also, because this manner of embroidery is not practical for a flag, some were sold more cheaply because of damage to the bullion, pulled threads, etc. I think I have one of these in a box somewhere, and if I can find it, I'll take some photos of the bullion work.
                Erich
                Festina lente!

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