Verifiable sources

[akriener]

If this is in the wrong place, feel free to move.

A lot of people on this forum have knowledge with a good amount of it garnered from their years of collecting/experiences. However, I rarely see if ever, any academic or research based sources being cited or shared backing up claims. crwflags.com does cite some books in their write ups. This expands way beyond flags. The blacklight test is at best, controversial due to recent literature and no one in their right mind is going to cut a part of their flag if there are no loose strings to run a burn test. I think it would be helpful for younger collectors like myself if the seasoned folks could expand on how they sourced the knowledge to determine something is authentic rather than saying "X is stitched like ABC so its good". Why? Who told you that? Where did you gather that knowledge? What makes you think that is an accurate source of truth? etc. As fakes get better and items continue to get exposed as fakes, it is critical for the maintaining of accuracy in this hobby that verifiable sources of truth are documented and maintained as much as possible.

[oldflagswanted]

...

See duplicate post #3.
OFW

[oldflagswanted]

Authentication criteria ???

... I rarely see if ever, any academic or research based
sources being cited or shared backing up claims. ... it
would be helpful for younger collectors like myself if the
seasoned folks could expand on how they sourced the
knowledge to determine something is authentic ...

Hello akriener:
There are a number of evaluation sources and
methods that can be used to authenticate a
flag as to period and origin. In these reference
sources are citations as to offical sizes, markings,
construction, and material. These criteria form
the basis for determining the authenticity of a
flag. See my various WAF postings for examples.
........OFW

[akriener]

Hello akriener:
There are a number of evaluation sources and
methods that can be used to authenticate a
flag as to period and origin. In these reference
sources are citations as to offical sizes, markings,
construction, and material. These criteria form
the basis for determining the authenticity of a
flag. See my various WAF postings for examples.
........OFW

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think the community would be healthier as a whole if more people went about the authentication process as you do, but I realize not everyone has the time or resources to do in depth research.

[oldflagswanted]

A favorite authentication source ...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think the community
would be healthier as a whole if more people went about
the authentication process as you do, but I realize not
everyone has the time or resources to do in depth research.

... is a landmark Smithsonian publication
authored by Grace Cooper entitled "Keys
to Identification of 13 Star flags".
OFW

[oldflagswanted]

Other flag reference sources ...

The Davis/Osprey-2000 "FOTTR" book (ISBN 1-84176-673-9) is as about
as good as it gets on the subject. His previous 1975 Arco pubs hardcover
book "F&SOTTR" (ISBN 0-668-03620-6) has larger color graphics plates,
but only covers the Wehrmacht unit flags. Likewise, the Guenther/Druffel
-2006 book "DFuSddh36-44" (ISBN 3-8061-1166-9) in German is like the
Davis-1975 but with more actual unit data. For Nazi Party DE standards
there is the Ulric/Bender-1997 "DE" book (ISBN 0-912138-69-6) but it fails
to cover corner patch flags. A now out of print classic is the 36 page book by
Walker/Almark-1973 "F&BotTR" (ISBN-85524-151-9) as it shows lots of
period photos. Their also exists reprints of the NSDAP Org book (no photos),
and the KM "FB" which is mostly just about WW2 period national flags. There
are other books by Bender, Mollo, etc., with flags but only briefly covered.

..........................
.............

[akriener]

The Davis/Osprey-2000 "FOTTR" book (ISBN 1-84176-673-9) is as about
as good as it gets on the subject. His previous 1975 Arco pubs hardcover
book "F&SOTTR" (ISBN 0-668-03620-6) has larger color graphics plates,
but only covers the Wehrmacht unit flags. Likewise, the Guenther/Druffel
-2006 book "DFuSddh36-44" (ISBN 3-8061-1166-9) in German is like the
Davis-1975 but with more actual unit data. For Nazi Party DE standards
there is the Ulric/Bender-1997 "DE" book (ISBN 0-912138-69-6) but it fails
to cover corner patch flags. A now out of print classic is the 36 page book by
Walker/Almark-1973 "F&BotTR" (ISBN-85524-151-9) as it shows lots of
period photos. Their also exists reprints of the NSDAP Org book (no photos),
and the KM "FB" which is mostly just about WW2 period national flags. There
are other books by Bender, Mollo, etc., with flags but only briefly covered.

..........................
.............

OFW - As always, thanks for providing a well thought out and contributing answer with substance. I'll take a look at the selections you've highlighted

[Berghof]

All great books OFW. In addition, as mentioned by akriener, I also visit crwflags.com. I even tried the library of congress for research/photos, but their website isn't exactly up to snuff. If you're physically in DC, I'm sure you can find some interesting tid bits for research. Our forum is one of the best one stop shopping sources out there...especially the pinned threads at the top of this forum.


.

[Br. James]

I have another volume by author and researcher Brian Leigh Davis titled "Flags of the Third Reich," published by Osprey Publishing in 2000, ISBN 1 84176 673 9, which is a re-publishing of three previous titles from 1994, together:
Men-At-Arms Series, "Flags of the Third Reich #1: Wehrmacht"
Men-At-Arms Series, "Flags of the Third Reich #2: Waffen-SS" and
Men-At-Arms Series, "Flags of the Third Reich #3: Party & Police Units"

Cheers,

Br. James

[akriener]

I have another volume by author and researcher Brian Leigh Davis titled "Flags of the Third Reich," published by Osprey Publishing in 2000, ISBN 1 84176 673 9, which is a re-publishing of three previous titles from 1994, together:
Men-At-Arms Series, "Flags of the Third Reich #1: Wehrmacht"
Men-At-Arms Series, "Flags of the Third Reich #2: Waffen-SS" and
Men-At-Arms Series, "Flags of the Third Reich #3: Party & Police Units"

Cheers,

Br. James

I'd rather have all three in one so I'll look for that. Thanks for posting!

[oldflagswanted]

As cited flag books available ...

...1975 arco pubs hardcover book "f&sottr"
(isbn 0-668-03620-6) has larger color graphics
plates, ... a now out of print classic is the 36 page
book by walker/almark-1973 "f&bottr" (isbn-
85524-151-9) as it shows lots of period photos. ...
& other books by bender, ... Etc., ...

ofw

[wilhelm Saris]

cover 1 - kopie.jpg

In this book of mine, published in Germany (German text) in 2012), a lot of colored photos of flags are included.
The reason as it is explained when and with what a flag is being used and when a gorget was worn. The authorized
flag-bearer's pacthes are also included. The shown flags are in full color.

The book has a large format and 704 pages with many, many photographs (I do not know exactly, but it will run into 1,400 or so).
The ISBN = 978-3-86619-065-8

For those who cannot read German, the number of photos do tell all and one will understand the subject.

[akriener]

That looksoke a great resource! Thanks for sharing

[wilhelm Saris]

[ATTACH]4624443[/ATTACH]

In this book of mine, published in Germany (German text) in 2012), a lot of colored photos of flags are included.
The reason as it is explained when and with what a flag is being used and when a gorget was worn. The authorized
flag-bearer's pacthes are also included. The shown flags are in full color.

The book has a large format and 704 pages with many, many photographs (I do not know exactly, but it will run into 1,400 or so).
The ISBN = 978-3-86619-065-8

For those interested four randon chosen pages from my personal "working copy", to give an impression of flags and their use:

flags 001.jpg

002 flags.jpg

004 flags.jpg

003 flags.jpg

[oldflagswanted]

Imo ...

For those interested four randon chosen pages
from my personal "working copy", to give an
impression of flags and their use: ...

WS:
IMO nice photos, thanks for the look. I
especially like the first pattern RLB flag shot
showing the non-RZM swastika pole top use.
Likewise, the Stuttgart OA HQ parade view
is also a favorite in that it shows my OA DJ
Guatemala fahne when examined close up.
.......OFW