Lugar Takdown tool Opinion

[helmetman54]

Any Chance this is an original?
Thanks

[phild]

Please wait for other opinions, but for me the tool shows several characteristics that I do not care for and is missing others. Aside from that, the marking is nothing I have seen before and makes no sense to me. I haven’t seen it all, but more and more I seem to tell myself I have!

[William Hull]

Any Chance this is an original?
Thanks

No chance at all.
William

[cerick1450]

Does anyone know of a good thread, or web page that helps identify authentic markings, etc for the takedown tools. I have never been able to find a good reference guide?

Thanks

[Mauser888]

Repro for sure.

[oldcorps]

While never being very common, these have been around since Luger tools were $5 items. According to the late Ralph Shattuck, they are original WWII production. The best info I've gotten is that they were manufactured by Steyr-Daimler-Puch as part of cleaning kits.

[phild]

Steyr did make some replacement parts for the 08, barrels for sure and they are incredibly scarce. I’ve never heard of a military cleaning kit for a Luger specifically only the RG-34.
First someone going to have to ID the acceptance number to a manufacturer. At this point I have no clue if this number even existed.
Second the orientation of the marking along with exact location and even the look of it is incorrect and highly suspect. Incorrect things were done from time to time but there is a burden of proof that comes with proving these cases real.

Lastly the machining on this tool is unlike the general characteristics found in most other variations of German military contracted tools over a 35 year period. That is my case. Someone is going to have to show me why to believe this one.

[Johnny Peppers]

The loading tool for the military Luger had the same acceptance mark as the pistol. No WaA mark on Luger, no WaA mark on tool. The tool may be a later contract tool (can't see it well enough to tell if legit or not), but the WaA is not original to tool. Fantasy item.

The WaA number was asigned to an individual and not a manufacturer, and it moved with him if he was moved.

[phild]

The WaA number was asigned to an individual and not a manufacturer, and it moved with him if he was moved.[/QUOTE]

This is obviously true, but my point was simply that an inspector or acceptance officer will be linked to one or more manufacturers over the period. I did not mean to imply that the manufacturers actually “owned” the numbers.

[Johnny Peppers]

Even if you identified the WaA to a manufacturer there is still no proof that the manufacturer made that tool.

I certainly have no proof but since the loading tool nrmally carried the acceptance mark of the pistol and magazines, if the tools were contracted out it would seem reasonable to assume they would be received with no markings.

[oldcorps]

As mentioned, these tools are far less common than those produced by Mauser and supplied with pistols and their existence has been known in the trade for some time. I discussed these with Shattuck and Fiet about twentyt-five years ago. Generally, they are thicker and slightly heavier than those by other manufacturers and are of milled hardened steel with parkerized finishes. The general consensus is that they were armorer's replacement items and they aren't very common but they are real.

There was no Luger cleaning kit per se but components for kits were manufactured at Steyr during the latter years of the war.

[phild]

Just for the sake of getting stupid on this thread, I’m going to start over and as always anyone can take it or leave it:

As to Luger tool references- the best that I know of is found in Appendix A of Hallock& Joop, the Mauser Parabellum. most every major reference address these to some extent, this is BY FAR the most comprehensive that I am aware of including a detailed treatment of fakes ( and why) and there are dozens of known fake variations.

I did not see this particular marking or tool listed as a fake, but also found nothing even close to it as original.

I also spent some time that I will never get back decoding into about 6 possible combos of numbers from the crappy definition of the WaA stamp and looking Each of those up in a comprehensive list of WaA offices/officers. Nothing close to any of them is listed.

Maybe it’s real and mega rare and mega non standard I don’t know. What I do know is that these tools have be faked and reproduced for at least 5 decades because 49 years ago I bought my fist and only fake........From Ralph Shattuck no less. In fairness to him he fully told me it was a repro when he sold it, but for 2 bucks it was better for me than using and wearing an original

Happy Collecting! Still a hoot after all this time

[oldcorps]

Hallock & Joop rely heavily upon reported examples of guns that they have never actually physically examined, which is problematic. When I peruse the bibliography in any of Still's books on Lugers, I see some heavy-hitters familiar to me, who were the go-to guys at bigger shows. Sadly, many of these have passed on and their observations are all that's left. I'm not deriding Hallock & Joop's work, but 100% accuracy in a Luger book will probably never be achieved. Some lessons I've learned that have served me well are that we never actually see it all and I'm still learning after sixty years of trading. Of all the inaccurate information passed to me at shows (and now on-line), one bit that crops up constantly is "I've never seen one so it must be a reproduction." 815 tools are an excellent example. They are few and far between and I will continue to trade one if the opportunity presents itself.

I also trade Colts and in terms of accuracy, any of Clawson's books on these is a highly reliable reference for the reason that manufacturing and shipping records not only still exist but are accessible. With German NS era weapons/accessories, all that's left is conjecture over a broad area because specific records in most cases, were destroyed long ago. All we can do is apply the knowledge left to us by the passing of those knowledgeable and apply our own experience.

[helmetman54]

thank you

[oldcorps]

I'm always happy to give a good home to 815 tools at a repro price.