Very Rare Deactivated SS marked K98 Rifle, Genuine?

[Blackopps]

Hi All, Is this K98 / SS 27 Erma Rifle, Genuine / Real?
http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/de...prod_7755.html
Thanks for any information. Blackopps

[cossack1648]

Your link doesn't work

[HENRY BUCKI]

link works for me

[Blackopps]

Your link doesn't work

Now fixed. Thanks

[bmg17a1]

In my opinion, the stamp on the gun offered is a fake. The reason is that the “cleft in the top of the skull is too far to the left which can be seen in the lightly struck stamping to the right of the heavily stamped strike. And the second light strike?? The alleged original version pictured shows the cleft more centered. Also, the ends of the crossed bones of the offered rifle stamp are higher than the alleged original. At least that is what I see.
Having seen quite a few clear fakes of SS stamps over the years on rifles and pistols done in europe and in recent years encountering these stamps on registered MGs now in the US that have neverd been identified before, they are all suspect, in my opinion, without very astute verification.
The european fakes of many different types of guns, parts and accessories and stamps are incredibly good. Unfortunately they are showing up in the US as well.
This isn’t a slam on the vendor, but many vendors are not diligent enough in their verificatiin of the originality of the collector items they offer. This includes when they buy the tiems themselves.
I recently complained to a US vendor whose specialty was German militaria and accessories who was offering at auction an MP40 sling at a high price. It was pretty clearly not a vintage sling, although claimed to be. His references for authenticity were two other militaria vendors, neither of whom dealt in MG accessories, parts or MG related items so their authentification was suspect. I sent pics of the sling to two accepted authorities on MP40 accessories, both of whom comfirmed my assessment. Then I offered the e-mails of the confirmations to the vendor but never got a reply.
My complaint to him was that too many vendors are selling repros or fakes without stating that they are not verified or might be fakes/repros and are using poorly or uninformed authorities to verify that their item is “real”. This is not acceptable snd these vendors should understand that their credibility is jeopardized by not doing due diligence on their items.
The sling was removed from the auction at some point before any bids were accepted, at least I could not find it again.
FWIW

[Blackopps]

Thanks for your excellent and informative reply. Your answer is what I suspected this is a FAKE stamping.
So some one will not be very happy when they find this out.

Thanks again, Blackopps

[zimmerit]

The markings are real IMO. However, this is a variation of SS rifle that is tough to authenticate without being matching. Funny part is the photo he posted of the second example for confirmation is fake. In any case, everything has been refinished and I presume nothing matches. Nothing special in my opinion.

[bmg17a1]

The pics of the totenkpf death’s head on the Lugers that can be brought up on google are interesting and very different than the ones below.
I can’t state that either of the stamps below are gemuine vintage impressions, but they are not made by the same stamp in my opinion. If the one claimed to be original below on the rifle in the book is considered a fake, how can the other one on the rifle for sale be considered as real? Will the real stamp please stand up?
As noted velow, the refinished rifle for sale is supect for other reasons, and I find the light stike also to be suspect.
It has been exceptionally easy for many years to have vintage handstamps accurately duplicated as evidenced by the many fake stamps available for many years for all sorts of different official stamped marks and numbers on firearms. The fact that these forgeries exist devalues the originals simply because of the doubt sowed about which are real. Especially with the style pictured below.
Many people don’t care one way or the orher.

[koolcat]

Death head luger

just thought I would share my experience of what happened to me, years ago I purchased a book on German lugers called Luger Tips by Ralph Shattuck he also sold Lugers, low and behold there it was, a German luger with the death head stamped on top, how can you miss a gun for sale from the guy who wrote the book !

I bought it had it shipped to my favorite gun store. when arrived I noticed the death head was double stamped, you know stamped then stamped again I asked the guys what do you think of this ?

I wont bore you anymore so I will cut to the Quick! Yes it was a fake, no matching parts either just a pile of junk


P.S. I got my money back it was not easy. Good Luck collectors !

[wolfcastle]

Glad to hear it. SS markings are a hornet's nest. I just steer clear now.

[Willi Z.]

I see bogus SS markings on rifles at shows all the time now. Generally on rifles which, on their own, would have little collector value.

[bmg17a1]

I’ll add the following just as an observation from many years as a gunsmith specializing in MGs. Hand stamping has always been a part of my work and learning to properly hold and strike a single stamp to get the best impression requires some practice. Flat surfaces are not too difficult to learn to stamp but round or varied surfaces present very unique and often difficult problems with getting a first strike that is clear and uniform. Persons without experience in stamping odd suraces will get a high number of strikes needing andother strike. When I see double struck stamps on firearms from eras when the makers had exceptional hand working skills, especially on German made small arms, it is not possible to believe that it is a vintage mark. There are numerous post-manufacture marks on many, many vintage firearms and it is easy to tell when the person doing the handstamping has only done a few or has been at it for a long time.
A double struck SS stamp on a weapon that will have been handled by experienced craftsmen, being done for issue and use by incredibly particular “elite” Nazi special forces just doesn’t make any sense to me. Just an observation from personal expereince. FWIW