MG34 Ammunition Box - are all 300 Rounds in one long belt?

[harrison987]

Hey guys,

In the manual for the Sd.KFz. 251/9, it states that in addition to the 2 Trommelkasten with 2 snail drums each, the additional ammunition load-out is to be:


4 Patronenkasten 34
Davon 1 ergänzungskasten
1 oel und petroleumbehälter

That translates to:

4 cartridge box 34

Including:
1 additional box
1 oil and petroleum box


So my questions are:

1) As the MG34 ammunition box contained 300 belted rounds...it that ONE link of 300 rounds...or 6 individual 50 round belts?

2) When it states "1 additional box"...any clue what that means? If it held ammunition, it would have stated 5 Patronenkasten 34, instead of 4...and they already mention the oil/petroleum box. Maybe the MG34 Tools?

TIA

Mike

[harrison987]

Well... Answering my own first question... I found this on the web:

http://www.mp44.nl/equipment/patronenkasten.htm

so I guess the question is... What do you think that mysterious extra box is?

[me6_130]

I can imagine they mean 1 PK34 to contain the oil and petrol boxes. Have a look at Reidar's article about spare part boxes. The lists detail all contents but also the boxes they were contained in.

www.bergflak.com

BTW, belts were nor 300 but 250 continuous or 6 x 50 (if not mistaken) alternated to fit better than 1 continous one. I believe Luftwaffe would had 500 continuos belts for their MG17 (I've got a 300 round piece of belt)

Carles

[timg]

Hi Guys,

Re the mystery tin, I think most likely to be the immediate use spare parts tin.

We have the ammo, we have the pet and lube tin, to be functional its next on the list to have spare firing pins, springs, spare flash hider booster assy, extractors etc to hand.

The remaining available types of tins to select from slide more towards armourer repairs than combat usage.

Regards

[harrison987]

my feeling is that it was one of these...

Thoughts?

[timg]

Hi their,

Davon 1 ergänzungskasten = "E" Tin = immediate use spare parts for rectification of problems during combat.

Better to have a complete spare bolt to hand than have to get a tool kit out

[harrison987]

Hi their,

Davon 1 ergänzungskasten = "E" Tin = immediate use spare parts for rectification of problems during combat.

Better to have a complete spare bolt to hand than have to get a tool kit out

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

PERFECTION!

Mike

[me6_130]

Hi their,

Davon 1 ergänzungskasten = "E" Tin = immediate use spare parts for rectification of problems during combat.

Better to have a complete spare bolt to hand than have to get a tool kit out

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

PERFECTION!

Mike

Oh, I hadn't read the original in German but the translation. Yes, the E tin, as mentioned, have a look at Reidar's article for the contents of the E tin (I've almost got my three tins with contents completed ) :

http://www.bergflak.com/ezvkasten.html


Anyhow, I think it's faster to get the bolt from the gunner's pouch or the "MG Werkzeug" box than from the "E kasten"



Carles

[timg]

Oh, I hadn't read the original in German but the translation. Yes, the E tin, as mentioned, have a look at Reidar's article for the contents of the E tin (I've almost got my three tins with contents completed ) :

http://www.bergflak.com/ezvkasten.html


Anyhow, I think it's faster to get the bolt from the gunner's pouch or the "MG Werkzeug" box than from the "E kasten"



Carles

Good suggestion Carles............However this was specified as the Sdkfz 251/9, primary armament being the 7.5cm short howitzer. The MG was not coax until the MG42 came along. This MG must be the one rear mounted for local close in defence. Would the vehicle even be issued with a gunners pouch primarily designed for the infantryman?
The vehicle was fitted for patronenkasten so it sort of makes sense that they had the "P" AND "E" Tins. I think it is rather strange that they only list 4 patronenkasten as 1200 rounds is not very much in the big scheme of things especially when your role is close infantry support. I would bet a months wages that they actually carried a good sight more than 4 boxes of ammo. Even if it were just to help out the footsloggers with some close spare ammo.

Food for thought.

BTW What date was the manual you referenced initially?

Regards

Tim

[me6_130]

The MG should be provided either with an MG Werkzeug box or a gunner's pouch. Light SdKfz 22x and 23x vehicles did have an MG Werkzeug box with 2 spare bolts for inmediate use, a barrel pad, 2 MG13 tools, an oiler, a cleaning RG34 kit and a spare booster cone, for similar use as gunner pouches, just as tanks:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=675091


Carles

[Gran Sasso]

I think it is rather strange that they only list 4 patronenkasten as 1200 rounds is not very much

its just 900 rounds - the list says 4 ammo boxes, of which one is the Ergänzungskasten. So just 3 for ammo.

[timg]

its just 900 rounds - the list says 4 ammo boxes, of which one is the Ergänzungskasten. So just 3 for ammo.

I thought the list stated 4patronen + e tin + P tin?

I would be even more depressed as a gunner only to to have 900 rnds !

[Gran Sasso]

I thought the list stated 4patronen + e tin + P tin?

No, translation is 4 boxes, one of those is the E + P

[harrison987]

Hey Tim!!!

Sorry...forgot to say that the manual is for the 251/9 early variant...without coax.

However, I am in need of clarification for the late type with the coax MG42.



For now, using the early one as a reference...any thoughts on how the MG loadout would change with the forward MG being added?

TIA

Mike

Good suggestion Carles............However this was specified as the Sdkfz 251/9, primary armament being the 7.5cm short howitzer. The MG was not coax until the MG42 came along. This MG must be the one rear mounted for local close in defence. Would the vehicle even be issued with a gunners pouch primarily designed for the infantryman?
The vehicle was fitted for patronenkasten so it sort of makes sense that they had the "P" AND "E" Tins. I think it is rather strange that they only list 4 patronenkasten as 1200 rounds is not very much in the big scheme of things especially when your role is close infantry support. I would bet a months wages that they actually carried a good sight more than 4 boxes of ammo. Even if it were just to help out the footsloggers with some close spare ammo.

Food for thought.

BTW What date was the manual you referenced initially?

Regards

Tim

[harrison987]

Here is a shot from the manual.

What I need to do is acquire all parts listed...buuuuuuuuuuuut...I need some slight adaptation, as this is for the early variant...and I need what the most "probable" loadout would have been for the late variant (KwK51)...with the additional MG42 Coax.

As I am organizing the ammunition loaout...not sure if they were loaded as 50 belts, so they could re-load the drums when needed...or if it was better to have a long belt.

In speaking with someone else, the MG manual states "either" 50 round belts (separate, with or without tabs)...or...50 round belts, all linked together.

Keep in mind that the coax was only used to aid in targeting for the 75mm. I am "assuming" that there would have been a loooooooooooooot of tracers an AP ammo?

Carles...any chance you have another one of those MG werkzeug boxes?