Do any member saw or handle the new reproduction of the 1909 US Army trials 45 caliber Luger prototype/001 at this year SOS? I read at the Luger forum a member/firearms dealer was taking it there to show prospective buyers for the first and second "production run", I am very interested...but $4,995 price tag, a "prototype" that I have only seen in pictures and to date have not seen any on hands reviews, makes me wonder if this really made it to production and with the expected quality. If anyone saw this 45 cal. Luger at the SOS, please let me know your opinions and views on this working reproduction.
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Sorry, made a mistake , is the 1907 US Army trials....not 1909. -
I'm not sure about the particular offering you are inquiring about, but do recall that maybe 8-10 years ago Gale Morgan here in the U.S. made some reproductions of the U.S. test trials .45 caliber "Luger" pistol. Mr. Morgan's copies were said to cost $10,000 each.
I would be a bit surprised if there were much demand for such items, given the price. Sure, some hard-core Luger collectors would want one, but at $5,000 (or $10,000) for something that is not a period original, I would think the number of interested buyers is very limited.
Do you have any photos of the offering in question?Comment
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The .45 Luger did not make it to the 1907 Trials. It would have, but DWM declined the order for 200 of the .45 pistols for the 1907 Trials. Only Colt and Savage made it to the trials.
A multitude of revolvers and pistols were entered into the testing, but only the three mentioned pistols made it through the testing and were ordered for the trials.Comment
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Thats the one I am talking about, but again, apart of those photos, no actual independent reviews on this offering.Originally posted by crowback View PostComment
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Originally posted by Alan Smith View Post
A fellow forum member just posted the link to the 45 Luger I was asking about. Krausewerks do what is consider the best and most accurate reproduction of the original 45 caliber Lugers, they are all handmade/machined and their original cost was $10,000.. now...they change hands in the 19/25k range...if they become available in the market...and they dont last long!!! Is a beautiful and superb made gun, since one of the know 2 or 3...depending who you ask how much they really worth....go from 900,000 to 1 million( original price paid for one of these in the 1990's)
The last Krausewerks 45 Luger I saw in the open market was at Simpson LTD about a year or two ago, 24k think was the price tag...it was gonne in two weeks!!!Comment
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Originally posted by Johnny Peppers View Post
I was under the impression that two where entered in the preliminary trials, one was destroyed in several of the tests, the other one survived and now is know as the "Million Dollar Luger" even as the last time it went to auction some years back it went under the hammer for 900,000 or something close.
The US army asked for 200 Lugers for long term field tests with the troops and it was there when the factory said there where no longer interested, since they had also the contract to the Imperial German Army and their allies...it seems DWM saw the US Army deal as not that important or monetary lucrative in the end.Comment
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Originally posted by Federico Perez View Post
He was stating that yes the .45 version made it to the test but not the trials.
There has been some great information published on the this subject in recent years from the Sturgess - Gortz work on the Parabellum. I think that they present compelling evidence if not downright proof the the test piece was not destroyed in testing. It is been a long known fact that two additional "period" .45 cal Lugers existed (not just one) and work cited above walks the reader through why neither of those were likely a back up to the one that was submitted to the test......so much about these .45 cal Lugers has been often repeated and now accepted as fact but is indeed myth! It certainly appears that neither of the surviving .45 cal Lugers had ANY DIRECT connection to the US Test and the one that did was not destroyed but may in fact be "out there" to be discovered some day in a $50 gun buy back program!Comment
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The .45 Luger that was tested at Springfield would not have been destroyed, but would have been an ugly mess. In the last of the tests the bore was plugged and the pistol was subjected to a a blast of fine sand with and without a magazine. The final test consisted of soaking the pistol in a solution of sal ammoniac with the bore plugged, and hanging it to dry for almost 24 hours. This would have severely rusted the pistol, but it was still put through a battery of firing tests.
While the contract for the new U.S. service pistol would have been lucrative had they won the contract, I think DWM had already seen the writing on the wall that too many in U.S. Ordnance were opposed to the DWM pistol.Comment
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I wonder if the Ordnance officials' apparent hostility to the Parabellum was because it was a foreign designed/manufactured product, or based solely on the merits? I tend to think it was on the merits. After all, we had no problem adopting the M1903 "Springfield" rifle (which is a version of the German Gew 98 Mauser rifle) during the same time frame as the Luger tests/trials.
Clarification: Gale Morgan is the very talented craftsman who makes reproduction presentation cases for the Parabellum pistols. The reproduction .45 test Lugers were from (as noted above) Mike Krause (who I understand is quite talented when is comes to producing many variations of the Luger/Parabellum pistol for collector consumption).Comment
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After the corrosion test the Luger did not fare well as it had difficulty fully chambering a round.
From the report of the Ordnance board in charge of the testing:
"From a careful consideration of the characteristics of each weapon and of the tests made by the board, it is of the opinion that..the Luger automatic pistol, although it possesses manifest advantages in many particulars, is not recommended for service test because its certainty of action, even with Luger ammunition, is not considered satisfactory because the final seating of the cartridge is not by positive spring action, and because the powder stated by Mr. Luger to be necessary for its satisfactory use is not now obtainable in this country."
In spite of the less than glowing report, the board still recommended that 200 be ordered to be furnished to the field for further testing.Comment
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I think 5k is very reasonable for a high craftsmanship very low production gun.Looking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.Comment
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I don't know the current status of the Mike Krause produced .45 Luger, but one sold a couple of years back at a Rock Island auction for $23,000.00.Comment
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Yes indeed will be, but it seems there haven't been any delivery yet to customers, so reviews and details about its quality,finish and how good it works/operate in the 45 caliber are not available, so in my very personal opinion I would wait and see, then when several independent reviews and test are made ,I can take a informed decision on it and if it worth the asking price, again my very personal opinion since I never have made bussines with the outfit producing these special Luger 45 in almost all its original design and details to the real gun.Originally posted by Jeff V View Post
John Martz (RIP) also made 45 cal Lugers among other calibers and types, but his where made in a very different way and not a "replica" of the US Trials 45 Luger design...but Mr. Martz guns and work was in a master class of its own, simply magnificent, now one can not find one of his beautiful creations for less than 8/10k....and up!!Comment
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