What is proper magazine for byf 44 Police "L" P.38?

[paddywonka]

Recently acquired a byf 44 Mauser Police L, P.38 pistol. The magazine that came in the P.38 is marked P.38v, on the lower left side. Also the spine is marked with a single upside down eagle 135 waffenamt. While the magazine shows about the same general wear & appearance as the pistol, wondering if it is the correct or original one.
Should this magazine have a waffenamt at all, being it is Police pistol that also has a commercial proof mark (eagle over N proof on left side of slide)? Should the waffenamt be the same as on the pistol, an eagle over WaA135?

[leondes]

From what I have seen, they typically used military inspected magazines for the police P.38s. The transition from using the E/135 to using the E/WaA135 occurred in early 1944. They didn't match waffenamt codes on magazines to waffenamt codes on pistols. The mags were made separately and placed in stores to be used when the pistol neared completion. Therefore, there were likely E/135 marked mags carried over into 1944 when the E/WaA135 started being used and could have been used in a 1944 pistol. That being said, most collectors like to have the same waffenamt on the pistol and mag but the WWII Germans didn't do it that way. We have seen lots of evidence of carry over in mags and other parts.

Regards, Leon

[paddywonka]

Leon,
Thanks for the information. While I have owned and sold off my P.38 pistols twice, I am entering this phase of collecting them again with my eyes open for the first time. Trying to focus my collecting on early,(no letter or low serial numbers,1st part of year) but could not pass on a Police marked P.38. From what I have read they are fewer than police P.08s. So bought this byf44. A friend of mine explained the use of parts from bins, with newest on top and older parts being issued some times way later as the bin would empty. Did not know if this applies to magazines also. Have a chance to purchase an eagle over WaA135 magazine like that on the pistol, that matches the overall color & wear, guess i will. Then keep the one I have for the spare in the holster. The holster it came in is marked "clg over 44" and it has no waffenamt or other marks, do not know if this is correct for this Police P.38 either. Will take photos of this byf and post soon.

[MP41]

As far as the holster goes, the maker, "clg" is for Ernst Melzig, Liegnitz (PL).
This maker did make P38 holsters from 1943-1944. Proof marks for this maker and date would be "eagle/WaAB66"

However, this same maker also made Browning Hi Power holsters the same year. So photos will help us determine what the holster is actually for.

Is it for a Police pistol? To answer your question, no.
From a collector's standpoint, Police marked pistols belong with police holsters. There are police style hardshell holster and also break-away style holsters.
The easiest ones to find are the RC break-away police holsters. They are usually marked with an RBNr such as; 0/0833/0007, or 0/0038/0007 as well as a stick winged Police eagle. (see photo).

Hope this helps,
Matt

[paddywonka]

Matt,
Well now I know what kind of holster to look for. This non waffenamt marked holster is void of any other marks except"clg 44". Thought that it is strange being from what I am learning, that other than police use, most P.38s were used mainly by the military. Is there a reason for no acceptance mark? This holster has seen some use, who would have used it? Here are some photos of the holster. While the P.38 fits well, is it for a P.38? Will post pictures of the pistol in a new thread.

[MP41]

Well, you're holster appears to be a P38 holster, but is not marked as such. It could possibly be for an Astra?
It does not look like a Browning holster though. The Browning Hi Power holsters the strap is going up, and the maker mark and date are on the break-away flap.

For some reason this maker, "clg" often does not have a waffenampt on them. I have a Hi power holster form this maker, with no waffenampt as well. Nothing to be concerned about. I'm sure it was used by the German army. This maker was located in Poland. (PL).

Your other photos don't show up for me for some reason?

Hope this helps,
Matt

[paddywonka]

Matt,
Know a lot more about this holster thanks to you. Owned a German 9mm Astra and that holster was quite a bit different. Do not think the Browning magazine would not fit the pouch either. So believe as you do it is a P.38 holster. Here are the other photos reposted.

[WWIIMARTIN]

Thats a nice looking p38 you have and with the holster, nothing can go wrong. Martim

[skiffer]

Hi guys, I too have just purchased a BYF44 Police and ask the same question regarding the mag. The mag that came with the pistol is marked on the left side with JVD under what looks like an E/WaA706. (poor stamping) The right side has P38 over l l but I suspect that it's a poor stamping of a U. No markings on the spine or base plate.
I would also like to know when in 1944 it was made. The serial number is 3956 and carries a WaA135 proof. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[leondes]

Hi skiffer,

Based on your serial number, the waffenamt should be E/135 not E/WaA135. Is that the case?

I suspect your mag was made later than the pistol. A serial number of 3956 would make it an E/L police and they would have likely been made in earlier 1944. The mag with the "u" was made late war. The "u" means the feed lips of the mag were not hardened and that was a late change.

We don't know exactly when the police guns were made. We are pretty sure there were, at least, 2 contracts. One started in late 1943 and the other in late 1944 or even early 1945. There may have been a contract in mid 1944. We are guessing on that subject. The late contract was for the E/F phosphate police pistols.

Based on what we see, we think there was a definite break in time between the E/L and the E/F production.

Regards, Leon

[skiffer]

Thanks for your reply Leon. Here is a pix of what I have.

[leondes]

Okay, that is correct. I didn't drink my coffee this morning and was thinking of the byf43 E/L variation that is E/135.

Regards, Leon