Gurtfuller MG34/42 ammo belt loader for sale 1940 stamp

[BOBC]

Hi,
Pics montage showing all markings of a Gurtfuller I have for sale, with the intention of handing it over to the lucky buyer (cash) at the Malvern Militaria Fair , Three Counties Showground, UK on Sunday Nov 22, else maybe postage or collection within UK. Not entertaining the idea of postage abroad ! However nothing to stop someone abroad contacting a collector friend or even dealer at this show in the UK and having them do so.
I shall let the photos do the talking. No returns. Note the faint 1940 on the rear face above handle hole. The eagle marks etc. Internal size hopper as shown. It rotates and things move to and fro etc ! Buyer can try it out to be sure.
The lucky buyer will be the one who PM's me with the best offer, if its above my reserve price. One recently sold in the UK for £400 so something near that would be good ! Great for re-enactors needing to make belts up. Wartime ones are the sought after ones and rare, 1940 is a nice date.
Any comments on this item welcome.







I can email the large A4 images if you PM me.


BOBC

[me6_130]

It would better if we could see individual pics of the stamps. Anyhow, this is not the right section for sales and I believe auction sales are not in the "etiquette" of the forum.


Carles

[BOBC]

Hi,

stamps even bigger, thought the pics were big enough, but here you go, hope this helps.



Didnt realise there was a sales section, however looking in on that section it wont allow me access, never posted there before or sold anything, but I am a longstanding member of WA, so how do I get it over to that section and be able to get to view it etc ? Why am I unable to create a new post and sell there ?

I didnt want to stick my neck out for £400 should someone not quite be able to go that far, so deemed it fairer to see what one could manage, helping interested parties was the idea.

BOBC

[me6_130]

hello Bobc,

You get access to E-stand when you become a full Association Member...by paying the annual fee (about 20€). I do think it is worth that amount, as you can post pics directly, sell your items at E-stand and have access to other "only members" sub-forums.

I don't know all those stamps on the belt filler, but I'm always afraid of finding Yugo stamps on them...and not sure about some of those small squares with a BX that can be seen on it.

Carles

[bmg17a1]

Two Yugo stamps are evident on the parts: BK in square and same size 2 in square. These are almost universal on Yugo m53 parts and accessories. There is no makers ID stamp, like cnx or any waffenampts with numbers.
Way too many stamps and in places not usually stamped on vintage loaders.
In my opinion, it is Yugo loader dolled up to look like vintage German made equipment.

[BOBC]

Hi,
By Yugo I assume Yugoslavia ? ..am I correct ?
That very fine german eagle is put on then by a faker ?

...and the fainter 1940 on the back in keeping with the fainter stampings there, now that is total dedication , would a german WW2 one be dated ?
Did Yugo not have date ?

the 64 1940 6614 occurs in two places, trough edge and end of main body, all 4's for example match in style, so that entire stamp was added by someone ?
The other stamps are in far less visible places, why would Yugo not put any stamps in the more easily seen places. and not have anything much notable, just very small single numbers or BK ?

The angled f, why should a faker decide to do that, must be a very astute brain to make it look genuine with such marks.

No sign of the date or eagle being added later, to my eye all the stamps are done before the finish is there, or does stamping not reveal any silver metal ?

Is the calibre length 81.5mm wartime and if so did Yugoslavia make these in WW2 ?
or did they use wartime calibre/length postwar ?

If not original german, still of use for belt making re-enacting I would think. though not a £400 model.

BOBC

[me6_130]

Yes, Yugos used the same caliber for long time after the war, if not in use still. Yep, I was afraid of those stamps. Fakers usually "fake" by adding non original stamps/eagles. Price goes down from 400 down to less than 1/3 for reenactors.

Carles

[bmg17a1]

I agree, the stamps look really good and quite legitimate, so I will offer this explanation as a counter to my conservative opinion. Not having the parts in front of me makes me very conservative in my assessments.
I have not seen an example of WWII German made MG accessories or parts, with the exception of Lafette tripods, that are clearly WWII vintage, but also have the Yugo stamps on them that allegedly were put there post-War by the Yugoslavians to approve for Yugo issue. There is no Yugo M53 production dating to pre-war or wartime. They are all post war into the 1950s.
There is a lot of Yugo equipment everywhere that duplicates German made items. The Yugo made equipment have very few stamps on them, with the BK and 2 prevalent, although M53 bolts have other inventory or part numbers to identify them.
So, in the interest of fairness, I would change my opinion to possibly vintage
German WWII made, but post-war stamped by Yugoslavians for issue. However, the complete lack of makers ID stamp and numbered Waffenampts still puts me off.
I've had a couple Gurt 34 loaders over many years that I sold with MGs quite a while back and have seen only about a dozen of them, so my experience is limited. I have handled, worked on and repaired, remanufactured or manufactured hundreds of Mg42s and still have five originals, alng with a 34. Also have built quite a few M53 Yugo 42s into semi-auto as well as restricted examples of live full-auto MG53s, so have more than a passing acquaintance with the Yugo stamps and parts. I have a bunch of Yugo loaders and post-war MG3 types as well as a few of the later Gurt 41s in 7.92 plus one in 7.62X54r.
Maybe someone else will have more info on this, and maybe this gives you some optimism, but in my opinion the question will always be there unless definitive info surfaces about where this loader has been and what might be its history. Interesitng though….thanks for bringing this here.

[mightymouse]

Stamps are 100% fake- the eagle is a firing proof style eagle that lacks the WaA number. Also you can tell by the alignment that numbers/letters have been stamped individually. Also- they were never dated from what I have seen. Also- yugo stamps are a giveaway

[Mg34gunner]

I agree, I think this is a Yugo loader that has been humped-up with supposedly German markings.

[bmg17a1]

Playing the devil's advocate is always interesting simply to force one to evaluate contrary evidence to bolster ones actual views. The irregular numbers are not of any consequence, really, in my opinion and maybe if the loader was in hand a waffenampt number might show up faintly below the eagle. Doesn't look like it.
Not having the hardware in hand is not my idea of the best way to exercise critical evaluation.
Anyway, the Yugo stamps are pretty damning but no maker's code and no waffenampt numbers is more so.
Not the best of fakes, but also not bad, either…..I've seen a few that are a lot worse that have passed!
Some of the best fakes I saw many years ago were a couple repro MG34 double drum MG34 top covers. Really excellent fakes, and even though the maker put a fake maker's stamp that looked like a German one, and fake waffenampts, there was so much collector competition for these cover, that buyers insisted they were real. In the 1970s it was very difficult to acquire sufficient knowledge about hardware, markings, makers, legitimate sources, etc to vet originality of the increasing number of fakes.
The shysters are still at it and getting better….

[SOLDAT1]

This should say it all the clamp is different on Yugo ones see picture so 100% Yugo

Yugo on left

Robert

[BOBC]

Hi,
Thanks Soldat1, no chance i suppose of a postwar clasp being fitted ?
What is , or was, convincing to me was the fainter 1940 and other numbers around the winding handle hole, and all stamps looking unfresh. No one adding SS stamps etc as has been posted here on fakes in the past.
So any chance of this being wartime then Yugo stamped afterwards , retrofitted clamp ?

the eagle is a firing proof style eagle that lacks the WaA number.

Also you can tell by the alignment that numbers/letters have been stamped individually.

The irregular numbers are not of any consequence

So what sort of price might I get for this, its still of use for belt making for re-enactors, and the public wouldnt notice anything at all. They are lovely items. This one in lovely condition.

BOBC

[SOLDAT1]

Hi
Still think it is a Yugo one rather than replacement part, will dig out my original one and post markings

Robert

[bmg17a1]

There is no way around the fact that two parts have the universal Yugo stamps of BK and 2 and the post-war style bracket. Add to that the missing waffenampt numbers and maker's code, which is most likely cnx, and a few other details.
If you need a loader, make an offer that will buy a Yugo loader and call it a day.