Karl Wolff Walther Gold Pistol

[sszza2]

Well reasoned analysis JimT. There are numerous examples of items bearing presentation inscriptions and given by Himmler to specific persons: the birthday swords, christening cups, pistols like the Weitzel PPK and other items having direct documented association with actual people. Then there are the generic presentation items from Himmler that carry a standard unnamed presentation inscription: the Scharfschutzen gift Sauers, shotguns and bincoculars and the Tapfern (to the Brave) pistols to close combat badge winners.

But here we have an unpresented fantastic engraved plated pistols suitable for presentation bearing the standard Walther inscription plate with only Himmler's name. To whom, when and where is the question? No one, never and in safe-keeping with his chief of staff is the answer. Two consecutive engraved pistols "presented" to his favorite chief of staff "Wolffchen" but without an inscription of thanks or anything? Never. Wolff probably had a group at a location near Munich as well as Berlin in case his chief wanted to reward someone with a presentation pistol. There are similar examples of this style of PP prepared for Berger for eventual presentation. It seemed to be SOP.

A beautiful pistol to be sure, but the only true fact that can be said about it is that it was found in Wolff's HQ. Not in hid possession or bearing an inscription from Himmler to Wolff. But only in his HQ. That doesn't constiture a present from Himmler to me.

JoeW - Thanks for the above evidence based analysis of the subject item which correctly indicates the boundaries of what it is and is not.

I will be curious to see how the market responds to this auction offering.

Scott

[wolfslair44]

Well reasoned analysis JimT. There are numerous examples of items bearing presentation inscriptions and given by Himmler to specific persons: the birthday swords, christening cups, pistols like the Weitzel PPK and other items having direct documented association with actual people. Then there are the generic presentation items from Himmler that carry a standard unnamed presentation inscription: the Scharfschutzen gift Sauers, shotguns and bincoculars and the Tapfern (to the Brave) pistols to close combat badge winners.

But here we have an unpresented fantastic engraved plated pistols suitable for presentation bearing the standard Walther inscription plate with only Himmler's name. To whom, when and where is the question? No one, never and in safe-keeping with his chief of staff is the answer. Two consecutive engraved pistols "presented" to his favorite chief of staff "Wolffchen" but without an inscription of thanks or anything? Never. Wolff probably had a group at a location near Munich as well as Berlin in case his chief wanted to reward someone with a presentation pistol. There are similar examples of this style of PP prepared for Berger for eventual presentation. It seemed to be SOP.

A beautiful pistol to be sure, but the only true fact that can be said about it is that it was found in Wolff's HQ. Not in hid possession or bearing an inscription from Himmler to Wolff. But only in his HQ. That doesn't constiture a present from Himmler to me.

Really interesting. I guess price will reflect if the story is believed. Taking what you've said into account, that there is no presentation to Wolff to speak of, what would you think of it's value?

[Willi Z.]

Very interesting thread.

[jimt]

golden PPK

RI auction estimates that it will sell for between $90,000 - $160,000 ? Has anyone ever seen a PP sell in that price range ?
jimt

[sszza2]

Given the market is flooded with wealthy object collectors rather than historians I have high confidence that it will achieve its estimate.

[JoeW]

RI auction estimates that it will sell for between $90,000 - $160,000 ? Has anyone ever seen a PP sell in that price range ?
jimt

Jim, Hitler's sold for $114,000 but that was years ago. I think RIA sold some of the finely done Sauckel presentation pistols in the $30,000 to $50,000 range if I am not mistaken. Those had ivory grips too as well as full inscriptions. I think the estimate is very optimistic and based on the consecutively marked one at the West Point Museum. But as sszza2 wrote, some people have more money than sense.

[jimt]

Himmlers PP

Members , has this pistol been discussed in any other Forums ? It would seem that this gun should have gotten more attention ?

[frankandfrank]

Engraving:"Karl Wolff" is horror !! Not a exactly engraving !!

[JoeW]

Engraving:"Karl Wolff" is horror !! Not a exactly engraving !!

It always helps to read the entire thread! There is no photo of an engraving "Karl Wolff" on the pistol in question. Visiting the RIA site using the link provided, the inscription is a facsimile of H Himmler signature. The Karl Wolff engraving you mention above was from a bogus gun offered in the past and is mentioned as such.

[jimt]

the golden PP

It always helps to read the entire thread! There is no photo of an engraving "Karl Wolff" on the pistol in question. Visiting the RIA site using the link provided, the inscription is a facsimile of H Himmler signature. The Karl Wolff engraving you mention above was from a bogus gun offered in the past and is mentioned as such.

thanks for clearing that up, I had no idea what they(he) where talking about ?

[jimt]

final posting for Himmler

Well boys & girls how about $250.000 plus for this exquisite piece of Nazi craftsmanship , final hammer price .......