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    #1

    Schilling 1917/1920 S/42K

    Hello all. I am new to the forums and tried to do a search for existing topics on this but couldn't quite nail it down. I recently came across this "sporterized" g98 while currently on a business trip. I am working on trying to post pics but as I am away from home and new to the forums this will be difficult.

    At some point the barrel was cut back. I am not sure by whom. Also the bolt appears to have been turned down and then slightly swept back. The Side of the barrel is stamped S/42K but the underside of the rear sight is only stamped with the full serial number at the very bottom by the pin. On the rear sight base that is on the barrel is stamped the last two numbers of the serial number (96) and under that the letter K. There is the single S stamped on the barrel behind the rear sight base screw. The stock is not scalloped out for the bolt handle and the remnant of the cleaning rod hole was plugged. Also, the 1920 date is stamped on the but stock close to where someone took out the bolt take down disk and plugged both sides with wood. I cannot find a weimar or Nazi proof anywhere. Can anyone tell me what likely happened with this rifle? Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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    #2
    The "1920" stamp is a property mark applied by Reichswehr to indicate that a particular gun belonged to the Armed Forces inventory.
    That's all I can tell you up to now.
    Douglas.

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      #3
      Reworked by Mauser prior to WW2 = S/42K

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        #4
        Originally posted by FestungSpanien View Post
        Reworked by Mauser prior to WW2 = S/42K
        Incorrect. A S/42K marking on a particular component is indicative of who made that component and by itself is not necessarily evidence of who did the rework. Determining who did what and when requires pics and many more details than have been provided.

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          #5
          Exactly right, alone the S/42k means nothing, only who make the component and when, typically the stock is the best source for who and when it was reworked or upgraded, though other markings on the barreled receiver can assist in an evaluation.

          As to the rifle, the 1920 is a government property stamp, it means the rifle was government property during the "military" rifle round up (not a general disarmament as some anti-gunners like to claim, it was targeted against military weaponry in civilian-paramilitary hands, rifles to artillery); the rifle could have been in any governmental inventory, Army, RM or Police, though probably Army.

          Without at least a few pictures, or more detail, how the barrel is marked, any markings on the stock, there is no way to say anything about the rifle itself... consider doing some pictures.

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            #6
            Thanks for the clarification

            Originally posted by sszza2 View Post
            Incorrect. A S/42K marking on a particular component is indicative of who made that component and by itself is not necessarily evidence of who did the rework. Determining who did what and when requires pics and many more details than have been provided.

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              #7
              Pics

              Thanks for all the info so far!

              I will attempt to post a link to some pics I put on flickr. They are not the best but I should be able to do better by the weekend or next week. If they need to be of a specific area let me know for next time.

              https://www.flickr.com/photos/129432730@N05/

              Hopefully the link will work.

              Comment

                #8
                Pictures are not wonderful, but the main question is whether the barrel is original to manufacture or to what degree it was altered, you say it was shortened, but to what length you do not say and you do not show the muzzle, - if the barrel was the original barrel (VCS/17) it would be very unlikely to have been shortened by the Germans, but if it is a replacement barrel it might tell you something. Generally the Germans did not do many G98 to 98k conversions, typically those that people call G98 to 98k conversions are only depot builds of a 98k around a G98 receiver, true conversions are extremely rare.

                A brief blog on the subject: http://militaryriflejournal.wordpres...8-conversions/

                If the barrel has a fireproof next to the serial it might be worth more pictures of the barrel, if it lacks a FP on the barrel, then it was probably the original barrel (it probably is) and was shortened by whomever used it for a sporter. It might be worth the effort to take the action out of the stock and examine the bottom of the barrel for a barrel code, it should have one, if it is the original barrel it will have an Imperial fireproof under the barrel and a barrel code, very possibly JP Sauer made (S&S marked, most consortium rifles were), if it is a interwar (Reichsheer) era barrel it will have a code that could roughly date the barrel, but generally all "Imperial" rifles have no fireproof next to the serial on the barrel, but all interwar and nazi era rifles do (exceptions exist of course).

                As for the rest, you need to do "good" pictures of all acceptance marks(acceptance is not the same a proofs... the only proofs on a rifle are fireproofs, the rest are all acceptance stamps) on the serial matching components to give an evaluation, especially on the stock (if it matches).

                The best clue to the history (German history) of your rifle will be told by the acceptance stamps on the components, especially the barrel and stock. A picture of the muzzle end/barrel steps and or length would tell whether Germans armorers did the work, it would be distinctive.

                Anyway, much could be said about the subject, but it would be pointless unless you can do some good pictures. With these alone, I suspect the rifle has the original barrel shortened by a hunter and the rifle was simply a upgraded Gew.98 that was sporterized. The bolt is not German done, but seems to not match.

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                  #9
                  I have updated the pictures. Hopefully they are good enough to glean some information from.

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                    #10
                    The barrel is the original to manufacture, it is a JP Sauer barrel, which is common, it was not cut down by the Germans, it looks like a 1960's Spanish import to me (Germany sold-traded many old rifles to Franco during the Civil War and during WWII, this is probably one such rifle, later sold to an American importer, who chopped them making them shorter and more marketable in the US market, they are common today) - the rifle has minimal value as a collectible rifle, to a German military rifle collector, but has value to some probably.

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