Bodes, I think the late-war stuff is fascinating. The information one can get from a late-war K98k is endless.
Here is the receiver ring.
Here is the receiver ring.
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Willi
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"ce" (Sauer) made barrel.Willi
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"lxr" (Dianawerk Mayer & Grammelspacher, Rastatt) made late-war followers for various K98k makers.Willi
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"l" (Astrawerk AG, Chemnitz) made late-war bayonet mounts.Willi
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I have no idea who "f" is though. Any help? On the stock recoil lug.Willi
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The footed 1 is actually a lower case L, and is an identifier for Astrawerke A.G., located in Chemnitz. This is almost always misidentified. Astrawerke also provided parts to Steyr, Sauer, and Mauser Oberndorf, but not on the scale that they supplied Gustloff.
Gustloff was really more of an assembler of 98k rifles that a manufacturer. This results in some pretty interesting bcd 4 and bcd 45 rifles with regard to milled and stamped parts as well as blued and phosphated finishes.Originally posted by Willi ZahnComment
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"e" is Kohler A.-G., Hermann, Nahmaschinenfabrik, Altenburg/Thuringen.
Gary
Originally posted by Willi ZahnComment
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Hey Willi,
"f" is Karl Heise Maschinenbaugesellschaft, Leipzig Bohlitz Ehrenberg.
Gary
Originally posted by Willi ZahnComment
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Karl Heise MaschinenbaugesellschaftOriginally posted by Willi ZahnComment
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[QUOTE=Willi Zahn]Bodes, I think the late-war stuff is fascinating. The information one can get from a late-war K98k is endless.
I couldn't agree more.....But myself personally like 'em all....The early stuff with high quality machining, all parts meticulously #'d and/or proofed.....The later stuff with the stamped, dual-toned, poorly-machined parts (superficially), and manufacturers mixing different contractors parts (not just randomly, but with a sense of order)...Definitely one of the things that keep this hobby interesting, the evolution of the K98k and the #'s of variations....BodesComment
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James, I agree that some of the "1"s could be "l"s. This would make perfect sense on the smaller parts such as the extractor, front band and the bayonet (as I mentioned) lug. So, they could be "l"s. But, the "1" on the receiver ring is a footed one. Same goes for the bolt.
Gary, thanks for the "f", but I did already state the "e" before.Willi
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Regarding the f marking. I was doing a data sheet on one of my bcd 4 rifles recently, and was suprised to find the magazine spring was f marked. It's also phosphated which is pretty neat looking. Your LSR looks like a great rifle Willi!Last edited by James Purnell; 12-12-2004, 10:56 PM.Comment
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We'll have to agree to disagree on this Willi.Originally posted by Willi ZahnComment
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James, are you saying that the "bcd WaA749" marked receiver is really not made by "bcd"? That they took in all of the parts from subcontractors and put them together to make the rifle? I am all ears on this....really. Surely this could clarify some issues, as many do not think the Germans used footed "1"s. Been a big issue on the fake Czech FJ helmets. Now that I took some closeups for the first time ever, I am studying the "1" vs "l" issue.Willi
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Willi,
Gustloff was unlike any of the other manufacturers of the 98k rifle in that they relied almost totally on subcontractors to provide them with machined and stamped parts, barrels, stocks, etc., to assemble finished rifles in the timeframe we are talking about. Look over a 5 digit serial numbered bcd 4 and this is obvious. Most of the subcontractors that Gustloff relied on were assigned single alpha letters as identifiers. These alpha letters are usually found in the area where waffenamts would be found on parts manufactured in house on the other 98k contractors rifles. Where I am going with this is that I have no problem with the location of the lower case L on the receiver or underside of the bolt handle.
The lower case L on the receiver and bolt handle underside is a carbon copy to the lower case L that I have observed on extractors, front and rear bands, and magazine floorplates. None of my Gustloff rifles have this marking on the bayonet lug so I won't comment on that.
I have not seen a waffenamt on a 98k rifle that uses a serifed 1. Nor am I aware of a number that is considered to be a waffenamt that isn't under an eagle, this excludes the 34 and 35 dated guns with S and P numbers.
It is known that a lower case L was the identifier assigned to Astrawerke. Before the war Astrawerke manufactured business machines and typewritters. I do know that in 1944 they utilized almost 3000 people in the manufacture of weapons materials. They were close to Gustloff in location, as were most of the other single alpha letter subcontractors that Gustloff relied on for it's rifle materials. It would seem logical that they had the capacity to provide receivers as well as small parts to Gustloff, and other manufactures of the 98k. This is speculation on my part based on what I have mentioned above. The Soviets looted Astrawerke after the war and I am sure all documentation of wartime production went east or was destroyed. The company did exist again in the DDR, but is now defunct to my knowledge.
Waffenamts inspectors were assigned to more that one company or geographic areas. There are know examples of this. I have seen lyo and nkd 44 dated P.38 holsters marked with WaA77 waffenamts. WaA77 is usually associated with Steyr's management of Radom in Poland. I have also seen 40 dated bayonets with WaA655 inspection markings that were not manufacured by Mauser Oberndorf. The E/1 that is found on the receiver of Gustloff rifles to the right of the lower case L, is also sometimes seen on the small parts that are lower case L marked. The E/1 is also found next to the lower case I that is found on rear sight parts on Gustloff rifles. It only seems to appear next to these two alpha letters. The connection that I am drawing here is that both Astrawerke and Elite Diamantwerke, who was assigned the lower case I, were located in Chemnitz, and their materials were inspected and accepted with an E/1 marking.
Back to the right side receiver markings. I feel that the lower case L was stamped when the receiver was finished by Astrawerke. The E/1 was stamped when inpected by the Herreswaffenamt in Chemnitz. The E/749 was stamped at Gustloff at some point in assembly, possibly when barreled. Finally when the rifle was finished and accepted the WaA749 was stamped into the top of the receiver ring.
These are my feelings on the subject and I have no problem with others disagreeing with me on this. I don't consider myself to be an expert, and would be happy to hear differing opinions too, as this is how the matter at hand is furthered in the end.
Jim
Originally posted by Willi ZahnLast edited by James Purnell; 12-12-2004, 10:52 PM.Comment
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