This is why your German rifle bolt doesn't match

[Ed Hicks]

This is why your German rifle bolt doesn't match...Bolts on the table and I would wager more than a few later mismatched while cleaning.

[MikeP]

Those guys were pretty strict on details. I know they were cautioned about this. I bet not many were mixed in a rear area situation like this.
As the war progressed and details got fuzzier, it would get more likely.

In the 50s and 60s, Interarms and maybe others sold a lot of "boltless Mausers."

They did not offer bolts at all. I wondered where they went.

[james m]

www.omega-weapons-systems.com

[bodes]

This is why your German rifle bolt doesn't match...Bolts on the table and I would wager more than a few later mismatched while cleaning.

I would be careful Ed, you may open up a pandora's box.....I suggested once on this forum that while rifles were cleaned en masse, the possibility existed for parts to get interchanged.....I was summarily reminded that this was a tactic used by persons trying to pull the wool over somebody's else's eyes.....German weapons parts were always matched while they were in use by their owners and that they were designed that way....And that the soldiers were taught to keep all the original parts with each weapon.....Bodes

[scallop]

Hello, new member first post. I have an all matching except for bolt, (bolt matches itself) bring back BCD 43. The reason I was told that most bring back bolts do not match the rest of the rifle is that when GI's were boarding the ships to come home the bolts were removed from the rifles for safety sake. When they arrived home the GI's were given a bolt to go with their rifle with no regard for matching numbers.

Makes sense to me and I have heard this from a couple different people as well as different forums.

[bodes]

Hello, new member first post. I have an all matching except for bolt, (bolt matches itself) bring back BCD 43. The reason I was told that most bring back bolts do not match the rest of the rifle is that when GI's were boarding the ships to come home the bolts were removed from the rifles for safety sake. When they arrived home the GI's were given a bolt to go with their rifle with no regard for matching numbers.

Makes sense to me and I have heard this from a couple different people as well as different forums.

Scallop, First of all welcome to the forum.....It has also been pointed out that bolts and rifles may have been separated after their capture.....This way they were rendered useless in case they were recaptured by the enemy....Bodes

[Bigdibbs88]

Scallop, First of all welcome to the forum.....It has also been pointed out that bolts and rifles may have been separated after their capture.....This way they were rendered useless in case they were recaptured by the enemy....Bodes

IMO this is by far the most likely explanation. The germans never reached full interchangeability even during WW2 (hence all parts being numbered in the first place). They would not have gone to the trouble of numbering every small part just to allow their soldiers to mix everything up in the field.

[sszza2]

IMO this is by far the most likely explanation. The germans never reached full interchangeability even during WW2 (hence all parts being numbered in the first place). They would not have gone to the trouble of numbering every small part just to allow their soldiers to mix everything up in the field.

Agreed - all pretty common sense though fun to speculate.

[Willi Z.]

The quickest way to render a bolt action rifle inoperable was to remove the bolt and toss it aside. GIs frequently did this and I suspect surrendering Germans were told to do the same. Being raised by Germans and having a deep understanding of German culture, especially before 1950, I sincerely doubt they would ever mix up bolts intentionally. No good NCO would have allowed that.

Great photo though.

[phild]

There were a lot of reasons and circumstances both while in German use and after capture that parts....especially bolts became mismatched.

I have talked to vets on both sides about this going back to the 1970s when they were in their 40s and 50s and had good memories of events. Take it or leave it this is what I have found:

1. Missing and broken parts were replaced at very low (individual soldiers and company to regimental level armorers) levels by the Germans during the war....probably in the hundreds of thousands based on figures given for unit level spare parts arms chests. In addition it is well know that cannibalized weapon parts were used by armorers and soldiers alike (WITHOUT re-numbering) and some books even have photos that this in progress. None of this is even considering DEPOT/ARSENAL level re-builds where everything was re-numbered.....except the occasional part that was missed.

2. Some GIs have insisted the Germans surrendering in mass were ordered to remove bolts (in one pile..etc..) and other GIs have told me this did not happen in their experience.

3. Some GIs have told me that bolts and pistol mags were kept separate from the weapons (locked up) either or both in the embarkation camps (like Lucky Strike) and or on the troop ships.....others have told me that this did not occur to them.

I have concluded that there was NO standard always way that anything was done as far as US Army bring backs or captures occurred or how German surrenders in mass were handled (some were allowed to keep arms for a while!) .....100% convinced of that. I do believe that some things were more common than others.

Another item is that several vets told me that they brought pistols back without capture docs.....did not want the Brass to know that they had them...did not trust them.

[scallop]

Many valid points there. I really did not mean to say my reasoning was the only way bolts were separated from their parent rifle at all, but to add another possibility to the pot, I probably should have worded my reply a little better.

70 years is a long time and so many different situations could have come into play, or even a combination of different scenarios. I find the speculation of what and where a particular piece of history may have been to be fascinating. If only they could talk.

[dixiedrummer]

Not to mention these are all G98s so the bolts wouldn't really be of any use for k98s.

[sszza2]

Not to mention these are all G98s so the bolts wouldn't really be of any use for k98s.

G98, Kar98a and K98k bolts are all interchangeable.

[dixiedrummer]

You're right. I know they're interchangeable, I just phrased it wrong. Even then, most guys weren't running around with NOS G98 bolts in their k98s.