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Billy Kramer

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    #1

    SOS antique gun experts

    I am in serious need of some advice on this find. Have I struck gold or is it a total misfire. I found these four German made fire arms from what I presume is the 17/18th century, One set of dualling pistols, one long gun and one two muzzle pistol. The engraving and inlay is exquisite and they are all maker marked to a gunsmith in Germany.

    Now I know less than nothing about these and need help before I pursue this. Firstly what are they, secondly are the valuable collectable pieces and thirdly where does one go with them if they are worth pursuing? I really need all assistance on this. I can get more pics if this is worth pursuing. Many thanks. jacques
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    #2
    hhh
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      #3
      Well worth pursuing
      I do not know, what are prices in South Africa, but in Europe and US top 3 guns bring premium money on auctions.

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        #4
        Thanx for the feedback, I have also been advised by pm by different members that these are quite valuable and collectable. It was advised to approach Herman Historica as an avenue to sell these. Are there other alternatives or private collectors as potential buyers, any thoughts on that? It was also suggested to put it on an antique gun forum. I really need advice on this. Jacques

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          #5
          duel gun are not very valuable aseems to be comun
          The rifle that seems to be a XVII or XVIII is Worth a good amount of money.
          Try Bonhams in england.
          They somd a hugh collection for a friend of mime and got high prices

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            #6
            Just research the numbers pertaining to gross auction sales and realized prices for comparable items. By comparison to James Julia and Rock Island - Hermann Historica is a at best a 'C' grade and not really playing in the same ballpark. If you want to maximize value go with JJ or RIA.

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              #7
              If you want to shell out over 30% in "fees" to one of these auction houses go ahead. Another approach is to do the research yourself and sell them yourself. Since these are antiques they are exempt from gun control laws almost everywhere and can readily be shipped thru the mail. If you end up selling them for around 15 % off retail value you will do both yourself and the buyer a favor.
              Jim

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                #8
                Originally posted by james m View Post
                If you want to shell out over 30% in "fees" to one of these auction houses go ahead. Another approach is to do the research yourself and sell them yourself. Since these are antiques they are exempt from gun control laws almost everywhere and can readily be shipped thru the mail. If you end up selling them for around 15 % off retail value you will do both yourself and the buyer a favor.
                Jim
                It is my understanding that based on the value of an individual item or collection - premier auction sellers fees at both range from a 0-15%. Although there may be occasional exceptions it is difficult for me to believe that a reputable, competitive, internationally advertised auction for a premium item would not significantly outperform an individual sale.

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                  #9
                  I'd suggest you go read the recent Hermann's Historika auction house thread here on WAF for openers.
                  Auction houses are far from a bargain anymore.
                  Jim

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by james m View Post
                    I'd suggest you go read the recent Hermann's Historika auction house thread here on WAF for openers.
                    Auction houses are far from a bargain anymore.
                    Jim
                    Jim,

                    I agree completely about Hermann Historica and that is why I gave it a 'C' at best below and didn't suggest it be used. Perhaps it belongs more in the 'D' range with places like Manion's pulling an 'F'. Still while I don't necessarily believe auction houses are the best solution in all cases I believe they are in some. Those some being for certain premium items, for estates and for people without the expertise to properly market & sell an item themselves. In those instances I believe the 15% rate is a bargain.

                    Scott

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                      #11
                      The pistols are percussion which makes them less valuable than earlier flintlocks and more mid 19th century but are a pair , however they look more flash than they actually are and I am wondering if the rifle is later copy . I like the little percussion pistol . Rob
                      God please take justin bieber and gave us dio back

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by sszza2 View Post
                        Jim,

                        I agree completely about Hermann Historica and that is why I gave it a 'C' at best below and didn't suggest it be used. Perhaps it belongs more in the 'D' range with places like Manion's pulling an 'F'. Still while I don't necessarily believe auction houses are the best solution in all cases I believe they are in some. Those some being for certain premium items, for estates and for people without the expertise to properly market & sell an item themselves. In those instances I believe the 15% rate is a bargain.

                        Scott
                        Scott:

                        You make some good points and perhaps since I'm more of a firearms collector then militaria (daggers,helmets etc.) collector I hear more auction house horror stories from both buyers and consignors regarding firearms anymore.
                        Along with auction houses IMO gouging everyone their descriptions leave a LOT to be desired and their return policy's are ridiculous. I wouldn't even consider making a substantial purchase from ANY auction house without a hands on inspection of the item by me or a trustworthy friend.
                        As far as today goes if I were to consign firearms to any auction company Julia's would be my first choice and ,yes, they will be very flexible on sellers commissions but you'd better be consigning an impressive collection.
                        Jim

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                          #13
                          If that's a real 17th century wheelock with real inlay (I can't tell from these pics ) it's worth a lot . Rob
                          God please take justin bieber and gave us dio back

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by james m View Post
                            Scott:

                            You make some good points and perhaps since I'm more of a firearms collector then militaria (daggers,helmets etc.) collector I hear more auction house horror stories from both buyers and consignors regarding firearms anymore.
                            Along with auction houses IMO gouging everyone their descriptions leave a LOT to be desired and their return policy's are ridiculous. I wouldn't even consider making a substantial purchase from ANY auction house without a hands on inspection of the item by me or a trustworthy friend.
                            As far as today goes if I were to consign firearms to any auction company Julia's would be my first choice and ,yes, they will be very flexible on sellers commissions but you'd better be consigning an impressive collection.
                            Jim
                            Jim,

                            Again I agree with your comments. Like yourself my primary collecting focus has been martial arms but I have also managed to collect certain militaria items along the way. But as frustrated as you may be with auction houses that focus on arms - gouging, fees, poor descriptions and return policies IMO they pale in comparison to the business practices of auction houses that focus on militaria. Pretty much mirrors what I experience with sellers of both types of goods at shows across the country. Although far from perfect I don't recall the arms collecting or dealing business ever having or tolerating for decades epic fraudsters like Charlie Snyder.

                            Scott
                            Last edited by sszza2; 01-29-2014, 12:30 PM.

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                              #15
                              High $$ rare firearms do really well at both JJ and RIA. They reach a clientele that most of us can't get near.
                              Willi

                              Preußens Gloria!

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                              Sapere aude

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