S&S M1913 Question

[z3r0]

Hey all. First post here and I've got a question! My fiance Has a shadow box she made with some of her grandfathers military stuff displayed within it. Among the items is one of these pistols. The box is sealed and I don't want to ruin it. As it has some very delicate items inside. Unfortunately I am only able to see one side of the firearm which has a serial number of 68xx (six thousand eight hundted and some). Was curious if anyone could give me any more information on this without opening up the case. I've been looking around for a couple days and just wasn't having much luck finding a database with solid serial number info. Thanks!

[z3r0]

Here's a picture...sorry its so blurry hard shooting thru glass

[JoeW]

Welcome aboard. You make it a great deal easier for forum members to view your posts if you re-size your photographs before posting. Your 1200x1200+ digital photo makes it almost impossible to view and negotiate your thread.

Looks to be an early Sauer and Sohn M1913. Those were in 7,65mm with some in 6,35mm. Here is a good sight for information that was found on by searching "Sauer Model 1913".
http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/S-S13-30/s-s13-30.html

[z3r0]

Yeah I'm used to a couple other forums I frequent that make thumbnails of larger photos automatically, went back to fix it and I couldn't figure out how to edit or modify my post on here with my Droid so I just left it. I did read the link you gave me before making this post. I was hoping there was some way to decode the SN to get a caliber/production date/etc. I might just need to pull it out and take a peek after all. Thanks for the reply though!

[Johnny Peppers]

[JoeW]

Yeah I'm used to a couple other forums I frequent that make thumbnails of larger photos automatically, went back to fix it and I couldn't figure out how to edit or modify my post on here with my Droid so I just left it. I did read the link you gave me before making this post. I was hoping there was some way to decode the SN to get a caliber/production date/etc. I might just need to pull it out and take a peek after all. Thanks for the reply though!

If you had read the link that I posted as you said you did, you would have immediately noted your Sauer is a transitional Variation 1 from the 6xxx range that were produced in 7,65mm caliber from the early production years. I don't know if the veteran brought it back from WWI or WWII.

Thanks for the size reduction Johnny.

[z3r0]

Not entirely sure why you're taking such a hostile attitude toward me. I DID in fact read that entire page of information, and my last post DID specify I as hoping the there may be more specific information with a specific serial which I had been unable to locate. My original post simply stated the model and the approximate serial and that I knew very little about it otherwise. Clearly a 6k serial was going to be a fairly early model. As for the caliber comment I was just stating thing that would commonly be within a serial number database. The story is that this was her grandfather's service pistol...however it seems that was not the case.

[JoeW]

Don't try to read to much intent into written answers. I thought Ed Buffaloe's site gave a pretty good description of the history of that variation. His service weapon? He was a German in WWI? That is fascinating.

The best work on Sauers is by Jim Cate/Martin Krause. They frequent Jan Still's Axis Pistol Forum. You might gain more specific insight there. They might ask for the full serial number for their data bases. Best wishes to you.

[z3r0]

He was actually in the regular u.s. army as far as I know. So this is pretty much for sure a take home from the Germans. The man is actually still alive...95 diabetes, blind in one eye, pretty much deaf, colon cancer, pace maker and just recently
had a second stroke but still doing well enough hes staying at home with aid. Remarkable generation. I want so badly to talk to him about his service but I'm (I think) rightfully hesitant to bring up anything that may be upsetting to the guy. He apparently never talked about it at all afterwards. Between my fiances two family sides they've got war relics from the civil war, ww2 and if this pistol is as old as it appears to be its probably safe to assume it was around during ww1 I guess. Kinda neat.

[Bill Grist]

Hey all. First post here and I've got a question! My fiance Has a shadow box she made with some of her grandfathers military stuff displayed within it. Among the items is one of these pistols. The box is sealed and I don't want to ruin it. As it has some very delicate items inside. Unfortunately I am only able to see one side of the firearm which has a serial number of 68xx (six thousand eight hundted and some). Was curious if anyone could give me any more information on this without opening up the case. I've been looking around for a couple days and just wasn't having much luck finding a database with solid serial number info. Thanks!

Commercial JP Sauer and Sohn pistol made in .25 cal and .32 cal...Some used by Imperial Germany and proof marked as a Military accepted weapon, also some are police marked on the front grip strap to a police unit...BILL PS Please edit your picts and reduce the size of the picture... for better viewing...Thanks BILL

[sauerfan]

HI „z3r0“,

that is not just an ordinary Sauer 1913 – it’s a rare variation, i. e. a model 1913, 1st variation, sub-variation B. This variation was made in a quantity of app. 4,000 pieces.

What makes this early variation special is the additional magazine safety – see the blank button below the safety lever.

Best regards

Martin

[z3r0]

Very cool. So, knowing that her grandfather brought this home after WWII theres really no other likely explanation than this was a weapon taken from a German soldier or citizen? There's no way this was issued as a service weapon like the family currently believes?

[sauerfan]

Very cool. So, knowing that her grandfather brought this home after WWII theres really no other likely explanation than this was a weapon taken from a German soldier or citizen? There's no way this was issued as a service weapon like the family currently believes?

Hi “z3r0”,

Well, it might be a disappointment, but, in fact, most guns brought home by GIs after WWII were not taken from German soldiers. In any case: no, this wasn’t an issued service pistol. What doesn’t mean anything, as German soldiers being allowed to carry pistols (especially officers who had to buy their gear on their own costs) used “commercial” pistols made between 1900 and 1945. Anything is (was) possible! I have a lot of period photos showing German soldiers equipped with pistols of any kind and age.

Anyway: I liked to know the full serial number for my database, as well as the slide legend. What does it say on the left side? Just “PATENT” or “ “SAUER’S PATENT” PAT’D May 20. 1912.” The latter isn’t likely, ‘cause these were exported to the US before WWI and are super rare. But who knows….

Would be nice, if you could send me a PM with the full SN.

Best regards

Martin

[z3r0]

Ah. I'm very interested in WWII history but I guess I've been a little more focused on the allied side of things. Actually doesn't make the pistol any less neat to me at all. I'm just glad I can at least tell her and her parents that it was almost completely out of the question that this was an issued service weapon. I also have an early Beretta calvary rifle, some variant of a Carcano I want to look into here before too long. I'll pm you the full serial for your database that must be a really neat project!

[z3r0]

Also from what I can see the only text on the visible side of the firearm is the serial number and the S&S on the grip. If I ever decide (read as: get permission to) open up the shadow box I'll make sure I take some detailed (and resized!) Pictures.