Finnish 3.7 cm Pak 36

[Einherj]

Hello all,

I am a member of a Finnish re-enactment group Etulinja and we are good friends with a privately owned artillery museum here in Finland. Last weekend we decided to take an old dirty 3.7 cm Pak they've had laying in the corner of one of their halls and give it a nice good clean.

We rolled it out and started cleaning:







The first thing we did was to check and see what kind of stampings it had. There was a Waffenamt stamp in almost every part but I don't have a lot of information on the other stamps. If you have more information on for example what factory this was made in and such, don't hesitate to let me know:













There was a kind of a beauty under all that dirt:











The gun was bought by the museum in the 60's or so, and hasn't been touched since, except for the occasional oiling and greasing. It has been deactivated (probably by the military before auctioning it out) by welding a steel pipe inside the whole length of the barrel. The breech and everything else still works, though. The gun also has a Finnish barrel installed in 1944 which slightly differs from the German one.

The gun has probably been sandblasted and painted with that sand color at some point of its life after deactivation.

The museum is not going to sell this gun but they are interested of it's current monetary value if someone here could throw out an estimate. If you have questions or comments, feel free to reply to this thread.

Thank you for your attention.

[Paul C]

Excellent pictures and thank you for taking the time to post them on the forum. The 3,7cm Pak is my favourite Pak and I would so love to own one.

The question of value is hard to answer but it could be at the very least 10,000 Euro but then I have seen dealers around the world looking nearly twice that price.

I am very interested to learn if you have any of the spare parts boxes and if the 2 tins on the shield contain any parts?

Many thanks
PC

[jiipee76]

BMG = Borsig(sche) Machinenbau Gesellschaft
Rh = Rheinische Metallwaaren und Machinenfabrik AG / Rheinmetall

These two firms joined together in 1936 and they were known Rheinmetall-Borsig after that.

[Willi Z.]

Wow, that is very cool! Nice work! Thanks for posting these photos........

[Einherj]

I am very interested to learn if you have any of the spare parts boxes and if the 2 tins on the shield contain any parts?

I'm not sure if they have any boxes related to the gun, I have to ask the next time we are there.

All the three tins on the shield are empty. I am not quite sure what they are all for but this is my guess:

- The long rectangular tin on the front shield is for the optic (Zielfernrohr 1x11)?
- The bigger rectangular tin on the left shield has different shaped slots, so is this a spare parts box?
- The long tubular tin on the right shield is for the barrel cleaning brush?

Please let me know if this is correct or not.

The museum would probably be willing to fill these boxes if anybody has these parts to sell. PM me if you do.
The barrel cleaning stakes are missing too.

BMG = Borsig(sche) Machinenbau Gesellschaft
Rh = Rheinische Metallwaaren und Machinenfabrik AG / Rheinmetall

These two firms joined together in 1936 and they were known Rheinmetall-Borsig after that.

Thank you a lot for this information. I will relay it to the museum.


The museum also has another one of these 3,7 cm Pak 36 then a 5 cm Pak 38 and a 7.5 cm Pak 40. Maybe we will clean and service those next

[jiipee76]

WaA code in pictures is 200 or 230?

Very nice Pak.

I have seen few in sale by dealers in Europe for 25k Euros.But price that somebody is willing to pay inside Finland is not even half of that.

[Einherj]

WaA code in pictures is 200 or 230?

I'm not exactly sure. Here's a better picture. What do you think?



What's the difference between those two (200 & 230) WaA codes?

[Paul C]

I'm not sure if they have any boxes related to the gun, I have to ask the next time we are there.

All the three tins on the shield are empty. I am not quite sure what they are all for but this is my guess:

- The long rectangular tin on the front shield is for the optic (Zielfernrohr 1x11)?
- The bigger rectangular tin on the left shield has different shaped slots, so is this a spare parts box?
- The long tubular tin on the right shield is for the barrel cleaning brush?

Please let me know if this is correct or not.

The museum would probably be willing to fill these boxes if anybody has these parts to sell. PM me if you do.
The barrel cleaning stakes are missing too.

Unfortunately it is a common story from owners of the 3,7cm Pak that the shield tins are empty and the cleaning equipment is missing.

I far as I know the rectangular box held spare parts like a firing pin and other essential small items. There was also an open iron sight and the stielgranate 41 sight to be stored somewhere.

The rectangular box also had a large spanner device and a brush like a paint brush.

Have you any pictures of the barrel cleaning brush?
I have been looking for a lot of these items for years.

PC

[jiipee76]

I'm not exactly sure. Here's a better picture. What do you think?



What's the difference between those two (200 & 230) WaA codes?

They sure are WaA200 in closeup.

Both numbers 200 and 230 does not appear in my reference books.

[Einherj]

I far as I know the rectangular box held spare parts like a firing pin and other essential small items. There was also an open iron sight and the stielgranate 41 sight to be stored somewhere.

The rectangular box also had a large spanner device and a brush like a paint brush.

Have you any pictures of the barrel cleaning brush?
I have been looking for a lot of these items for years.

Thank you for this clarification. I'm afraid I don't have any info or pictures of the brush. As you might have figured out, I'm not an expert on these guns but now that we have them to play with, I'll try to learn more about them

Can you recommend any resources, web sites or books for example?

They sure are WaA200 in closeup.

Both numbers 200 and 230 does not appear in my reference books.

That's a shame. Thank you for the interest, though.

[Paul C]

Can you recommend any resources, web sites or books for example?

The best original manual is the H. Dv. (Heeresdienstvorschrift) 393 and I am still looking for an origianl copy
The 3,7cm Pak ordnance is covered by a number of Merkblatts:
1. H.Dv. 481/73 for Pzgr and Sprgr
2. H.Dv. 406 for Pzgr40
3. H.Dv. g481/501 for stielgr 41

The other source is too keep an eye on ebay for war period Pak photographs.

There is a small secondary source info booklet called "The 37mm Pak" by Werner Haupt and Waffen Revue did a 3 part article in numbers 72, 73 & 74.
Waffen Revue No. 65 covered the ordnance.

That should be enough to get you started.

Regards
PC

[jiipee76]

Can you recommend any resources, web sites or books for example?

Best source definetly is Finnish army manuals for this gun.Sometimes you can find them in auctions and militaria fairs.I just found one book for 2cm Flak 30/38.Finnish manuals are useally direct translations from German originals.

[Einherj]

The best original manual is the H. Dv. (Heeresdienstvorschrift) 393 and I am still looking for an origianl copy
The 3,7cm Pak ordnance is covered by a number of Merkblatts:
1. H.Dv. 481/73 for Pzgr and Sprgr
2. H.Dv. 406 for Pzgr40
3. H.Dv. g481/501 for stielgr 41

The other source is too keep an eye on ebay for war period Pak photographs.

There is a small secondary source info booklet called "The 37mm Pak" by Werner Haupt and Waffen Revue did a 3 part article in numbers 72, 73 & 74.
Waffen Revue No. 65 covered the ordnance.

Best source definetly is Finnish army manuals for this gun.Sometimes you can find them in auctions and militaria fairs.I just found one book for 2cm Flak 30/38.Finnish manuals are useally direct translations from German originals.

Thank you guys. I'm definitely going to keep an eye out for these manuals.

[snidervolley]

pak

Einhari
i have a finnish pak all waffennampt satamped (with swastika)and all accessories ,armourers kit with sapre parts wrenchs and oilers etc etc
and its live with ten live rounds dated 43 and 6 six emptie cases , pak scope (ziess)and artillery sight .also have the canvas breech cover and spanners
i dont think i can post pictures on this forum though[IMG]
http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/snidervolley/media/hoby20010.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/snidervolley/hoby20010.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo hoby20010.jpg"/></a>[/IMG]

[snidervolley]

[IMG]<a href="http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/snidervolley/media/ssd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/snidervolley/ssd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo ssd.jpg"/></a>[/IMG]