W.W.1 German 13mm Anti-Tank Rifle

[juno44]

Hi, someone is offering me an original German W.W.1 13mm anti-tank rifle. The complete bolt is missing from the rifle and I was wondering if someone would have a spare one or would know where I could find one.

Regards, juno-44

[IMBLITZVT]

Going to be about as hard as that needle in a hay stack! I have never even heard of one for sale. I have seen a stripped receiver for sale once but never a bolt... Good luck! Any pictures to post?

[lugernut]

Your best bet is try and barrow one from someone and have a machinest make one for you. A friend of mine did this and the bolt came out fine.

[Alan Smith]

Yes - finding a loose bolt will be next to impossible; I have never seen or heard of one for sale and I've been interested in these guns for 20 years or so. Plus, if you ever found one, chances are the owner would know what it is for and would want a high price for it. I remember c. 1985 or so there was, for several years, a guy who ran a "Wanted" ad in The Shotgun News here in the States, stating that he owned a T-Gewehr (less bolt) and was looking for an original in order to complete his gun; I don't know if he ever found a bolt but his ads finally ceased (my assumption at the time was that he got tired of paying for ads).

I picked up a T-Gewehr (#2854) for my collection a couple of years ago:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=404698

Just wondering: What is the asking price for the T-Gewehr (less bolt) that you have observed in Canada? Also, I keep notes of serial numbers for these guns, so if you can post the SN that would be appreciated.

Alan

[TGewehr]

I had a T-Gewehr Bolt (purchased at Auction around 1992), it was a good one and an impressive 'paper weight'...I did however sell it on to part finance the purchase of a complete rifle, a decision I later regretted as the bolt I had was in better condition than the one accompanying the rifle which was mismatching anyway. I doubt that the original purchaser of my bolt still has it, but I can initiate an inquiry with him....but Yes, solo bolts are difficult, mine was the only one I have been aware of in almost 30 years of collecting T-Gewehrs. If however the price is 'right', grab the rifle, they are an impressive and important rifle.

regards,
Peter.

[Alan Smith]

Here are a couple of photos of the gun in question, as provided to me by the original poster; perhaps the photos will help us provide him with more feedback on the gun. My understanding is that the original poster is interested in determining what would be a fair price to pay for the gun in light of its condition and missing bolt and bipod (it has been offered for sale to him). The gun is located in Canada so, obviously, he will need to convert our value estimates into Canadian dollars.

[Alan Smith]

Photo #2

[Alan Smith]

Photo #3.

[TGewehr]

IMO, if here in Australia, with local 'capture history' markings, maybe up to US$3K. I am assuming that in the absence of one in the photos there is no bipod either?
A good complete one here around $5-$6K, but as you know in some auction environments, anything is possible!

[juno44]

Hi, I was lucky a few years ago to be able to cannibalized a dozen MG08/15 that were waiting destruction at the Canadian War Museum. I still have two original MG08/15 bipods so the bipod is not an issue. Even if I get the gun for about $2000.00 in trade, I now presume it will be impossible to find a bolt for it, so I guess I will pass unless one of you is interested in getting it.

Regards, juno44

[Alan Smith]

Yes, this is a very interesting old gun (especially with the capture history) . . . . . but it is missing critical parts that are virtually unobtainable. If you can find a nice original tubular-type bipod w/original paint, it will easily cost you U.S.$1,000 or maybe up to around U.S.$1,500. While bipods can be found with some effort, it is the bolt that is the real problem. My thoughts are that the only realistic possibility of locating a bolt is via networking with other collectors (such as on this Forum) and maybe, just maybe, someone has one stuck back from years ago that came off a scrapped-out gun. Assuming a bolt might be available from a fellow collector, my guess is that a fair price would be around U.S.$2,000 to U.S.$2,500 (or possibly more). Simply stated, it would be the seller's decision on what to ask and you would have no choice but to pay the asking price if you ever want to put the gun back together. While I have seen multiple T-Gewehr for sale and/or in museums with no bolt, I have never seen a loose bolt for sale (with the experience of our member "T-Gewehr" in Australia being the only time I have ever heard of a loose bolt for these guns).

All this said, I don't know what value to put on the T-Gewehr in question: maybe a maximum of around U.S.$1,500 or so? Regardless of money, however, I think the real issue is that any prospective purchaser needs to decide if he will be happy over the long run with the gun having no bolt, as more than likely that is the way this gun is going to remain given the lack of availablity of spare parts.

BTW: I recall the (stripped) T-Gewehr receiver for sale here in the U.S. some years ago; I seem to recall that the asking price was around U.S.$3,000 (but I don't think it ever sold at that high price). A loose bolt would, IMO, be much more valuable as there are guns that need bolts but I'm not aware of any T-Gewehr parts kits that are sitting around waiting on a receiver. Just something to keep in mind re: what sort of expectations the owner/seller of a bolt might have as to pricing.

[TGewehr]

It's easy when your spending someone's elses money! However, if you can get it for under $2K, then given that you have a bipod to put on, I'd be grabbing it (OK, given my 'name' you can tell I have a passion for these things ) but find another object with such great history attached and in this case on a hard to find rifle and see what it costs!

just my 2 cents worth!

Good Luck,
Peter.

[90th Light]

One just sold here in NZ at auction for over US $12,000. It was locally brought back but had no capture markings on it.

I guess two guys really wanted one

Chris

[Alan Smith]

I did some quick internet research on the Canadian unit to which this T-Gewehr is attributed and found the following website which has the war diaries of the unit:

http://www.4cmr.com/regt1918.htm

Assuming that Canadians write dates the same as we do here in the U.S., I interpret the "9.10.18" date on the gun to be September 10, 1918. Assuming this is the date of capture/acquisition of the T-Gewehr by the Canadian unit, the unit's war diary for that day mentions "The 10th sees efforts to collect large amounts of salvageable material in the area . . . ." At that time the unit was located at Vis-en-Artois, about 10 KL south-east of Arras, France, where it was then "on the line" and engaged against the enemy.

[pitfighter]

Awesome research, Alan!

I find the 13mm AT Mauser a very interesting rifle, imagine the Canadians seeing it, it must have been quite a discovery the first time they saw it.

I imagine however it would be one of those weapons you really didn't want to be ordered to carry, sort of like the MG08 sled.
"OK, jokes over - you really want me to lug that thing?"

Pit.