K98/zf41 sniper worries

[sean weber]

Hi All
Can anyone shine some light on a K98/zf41 sniper rifle my friend has offered me . The rifle is in nice clean condition the scope rail matching numbers to the rifle its the markings that are causing me concern.
The main stamping is 42/S
1943
I undersand this is a late date for such a marking, the receiver is also marked with two runes in a small diamond!!! as is the scope rail, most curious of all is that the rifle is marked with the early type waffen ampt normally found on pre/early war gear and weapons. Any ideas to its pedigree, re work or fantasy piece.

[KenT]

Hi, how about more close-up pictures of the markings. I don't get some of the points. The scope rail has numbers, not the scope mount? 42/S (isn't it 'S/42'?) and 1943 together? Pictures will show them clear.

[Bill Grist]

Detail

Yes,needed some detail pictures of the markings,,wfg

[Willi Z.]

Yes, would need to see some photos of the markings. Zf41 rifles were made by "ar", "duv" or "byf", so I would be concerned if the rifle was made by another maker.

Willi

[Bill Grist]

dou

Willi, dou mfg. a few ZF41 sniper rifle rigs as well. WFG

[sean weber]

sniper worries

Hi Guys
Sorry for my typing errors it is indeed S/43 heres a few more pictures I only have a few because ,the weapon is not mine yet!!!!! all feedback very welcome. Ps the stampings show up well once blown up , I cannot manage to do this and save it to post if anyone can do this I will email them the pictures

Sean W.

[leondes]

Hi Sean,

I am not an expert on the ZF41s but I can give you this information.

S/42 was a secret code assigned by the Germans to Mauser to hide information as to who was making what. Each manufacturer of K98ks had their own unique code. Each code started with "S/". Mauser started using this code in 1934 when they started making K98ks.

In 1938 the "S" was dropped and they started only using the numerical portion. So just 42 was used in late 1938, 1939 and 1940. Starting in 1940, the secret codes were changed to letter codes. Mauser changed their's at the start of 1941 and their assigned code was byf. They used byf until 1945 when the Germans decided the codes had been compromised and slightly into 1945 they changed Mausers code to svw.

So, a S/42 code 1943 Mauser should not exist. Also, by 1941 Mauser starting just using the last 2 digits of the date on the receiver. So a 1943 should just be 43.

I hope this helps a little.

Regards, Leon

[KenT]

Hi Sean, I am sorry to say I don't like the markings on the receiver. And looking carefully at the first picture you posted, the rifle serial number seems to be at the leg of the mount rear arm with some other marking. That seems a little strange too, because I thought the rifle numbers were usually marked a little above the manufacturer code 'duv'. And never heard of the other marking (in a diamond?) on the mount (though I know only a few..).
Regards, Ken

[Bill Grist]

zf41

The stock cut out for the mount does not look correct to me.. We need better picts....wfg

[sean weber]

The evidence so far

Ok
Up to now we have learnt that the s code along with the early style waffenampt is correct , but there is a question mark against the full date (1943) and the runes stamp within a diamond. its clear that the scope rail on the rear sight has been added after the weapons manufacture ,would it be easy for someone to change the rear sight post war to add the scope feature
the question boils down to this "did the germans ever rework any of their small arms" has this scope been added in 43 and the rifle re stamped or is it a pure collector added fantasy.
Heres some more photos the owner sent me. im a bit concerned to ask for more as hes unaware this weapon is up for review on an open forum and he will get a bit p**t at me. Mind you not as p**t as me if I buy iffy rifle.

Sean

[Dave Kane]

The Zf41 'sniper' is the most commonly encountered 'counterfit' of any of the period pieces!

The mount is very easy to sweat off a beater and then on to a complete, matching rifle.

The most glaring (and often overlooked by the 'forger') is the cut out of the stock for the mount. The shape / style of this one is incorrect as Bill rightly points out and looking closely there isn't any 'wear patina' to the cut out area.

Dave

[sean weber]

Cheers
Dave and Bill for keeping me right on this matter,the cut for the sight seems to confirm my doubts.

Regards
Sean

[tankdriver]

Cheers
Dave and Bill for keeping me right on this matter,the cut for the sight seems to confirm my doubts.

Regards
Sean

The cut on the stock seems to come too far back. Also the cut shoulder is too square. There is no wear. Here's a couple photos of my 42 AR

[gew98]

j

The rifle is a humper.It is basically a $125 shooter .So really if you pay any more than $100 over what the scope and can is worth you've been had. Even if that S/42 receiver was an armorer's replacement part assembled to a rifle at a later date it would not be marked with the full 1943 date as noted , and still have weimar/early nazi proofs.Note the color of the receiver ring - different from ALL the rest of the rifle and not from wear mind you. Either your "buddy" got stung and is now trying to get out from under it , or he is genuinely naive about his folly of a purchase.So don't you be as naive.