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Sanded Stocks on G/K-43 Rifles?

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    Sanded Stocks on G/K-43 Rifles?

    Over the years I have noticed that a large portion of the G/K-43 rifles on the U.S. collector market have sanded/refinished stocks. To me, the very high percentage of sanded stocks is out of proportion to what we see with 98k and other WWII German rifles typically found here in the U.S. I wonder if there is a pattern?

    I recall seeing G/K-43 rifles for sale in the Interarms (and related Sam Cummings' entities) ads in the back of of 1960's-era American Rifleman magazines, so it seems clear that Sam Cummings imported some quantity of these rifles for the US market. In reading several books about Sam Cummings and his operations, I see repeated references to him having "refurbishment" operations (particularly at Interarms' Manchester, England facility) where the raw surplus was processed through for cleaning and other "refurbishment" prior to being shipped to the US for sale.

    Thus, I wonder if the pattern (that I perceive to exist) of sanded and refinished G/K-43 stocks indicates that many such examples on the U.S. market are Sam Cummings/Interarms imports from the 1960's rather than direct U.S. veteran bring-backs?

    Sure, there are going to be lots of "Bubba" sanded stocks on G/K-43's, just like with 98k's. My point, however, is that the precentage of sanded/refinished stocks that I have observed on the U.S. market for G/K-43's seems MUCH higher than the number of correspondingly altered 98k's. With 98k's that are "Bubba" jobs, we typically see variation among the examples as to what sort of alterations were made to "sporterize" the rifles; with the G/K-43's the rifles seem pretty consistent with the only alteration being stock sanding and coating with varnish. This seemingly consistent treatment, coupled with the documented Interarms sale of such rifles here in the U.S. (and further knowing that Interarms "refurbished" rifles prior to sale) causes me to wonder if we are seeing a pattern.

    BTW: If you read the various books on Interarms/Sam Cummings, you will learn about the tremendous quantities of WWII German small arms that he imported into the U.S. My understanding is that so-called "import markings" were not in effect at this time, so none of the Interarms guns are specially marked. Thus, my sense is that a significant number of WWII German small arms now in U.S. collections are Interarms imports and not "war trophy" bring-backs from U.S. troops.

    Just a few ideas that I wanted to toss out for discussion. Any thoughts?

    #2
    I'll throw out a few non-Sam Cummings/Interarms thoughts on the matter.

    Late war Walther made rifles had very rough, chatter marked stocks - due to shortcuts to get the rifles into the hands of their troops. These rough stocked rifles that made it into the US went into the hands of many people who thought nothing of using sandpaper to make them more atheistically pleasing.

    Just tough shyt for future collectors who value originality.

    Also, the grip area of the G/K43 was pretty thick in comparison to say a 98K. You see numerous well-used examples that are cracked there even though they were manufactured to be "thick" in that area. New US owners of these rifles who had no idea of the propensity of these rifles to crack in that area, bubba'd a lot of them to make them more "graceful".

    All-in-all, minty original stocks for G43/K43 are rare - period.

    Comment


      #3
      It's an interesting question. I personally don't think that the Interarms imports accounted for that many G43s that are around. I also question why they would of bothered to take these down and sand them and then do nothing else..but keep the matched parts together and the re-assemble them to sell....I lot of work for rifles that were being sold sight unseen for the most part.

      I have seen these that were very lightly sanded and clearly done without the metal attached or at least being very very careful to work around the metal...hard to do in a mass environment.


      All wood stocks were sanded....period. Some were sanded again after they left the factory. US GI MI TM's state that M1 stocks ARE TO BE SANDED BY THE GI when the wood is burred or scuffed.......I would bet that plenty of rifles were also lightly touched up by German soldiers and armorers....as a matter of fact I know that they were.

      We get back to the famous "un-touched" phrase. All that I can say is that I evaluate each item on it's merits or problems and make a decision if I will be happy with it in terms of is it's wartime period of use integrity and looks up to my standard......I have a few rifles with lightly sanded stocks.....meaning proofs still present and no contours disturbed....I have others mostly early that are just flat worn...including Civil War pieces.....

      Comment


        #4
        possibly these rifles came from another country sitting on them , just in case they wanted to use them. They may have done the stock sanding, ect.
        the russians rebuilt all those k-98s , mainly to keep some factories busy (employees busy), till they figured out what to do next.
        most , as I read left factories still in the white..... nothing at all added to the wood at all (as mine is ).
        many soldiers then dirtied them up in the field.

        we kept F.N. busy in 1945 rebuilding m1 carbines & garands , till they figured out what to do next.
        So ,I doubt any dealer would waste their time then or now on something like that.
        jeff

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          #5
          I recall heaps of 43s at shows in the 60s.
          15 or more in a pile.
          They were so crude and buttugly they had a hard time getting a hundred bucks.
          Collectors wanted G41s.

          Matching 98s were around $50 tops.
          MLP

          Comment


            #6
            Very nice discussion, guys; I appreciate the responses (all of which raise good points for thought). Mike's recollections of G/K-43's being offered in quantities at gunshows in the 1960's is also very interesting.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by MikeP View Post
              I recall heaps of 43s at shows in the 60s.
              15 or more in a pile.
              They were so crude and buttugly they had a hard time getting a hundred bucks.
              Collectors wanted G41s.

              Matching 98s were around $50 tops.
              yea I would believe that thousands may have been imported during the 50s and 60s, but I am not so sure that any of those would have had the stocks hand sanded and those are the ones that I think that Alan is talking about...at least those are they type of sandings that I run into with these.

              As to the price I think that your are spot on. I know that by 66-67 the importers were retailing the G43 for around $75..better ones may have been $100 or so and I bought a Garand in 67-68 retail for $125 including tax.....which the 6 bucks for tax would have broken the deal for me back then.....of course base pay for an E-1 was around $65 a MONTH and a firend of mine bought a decent Corviar from an individual for $75....

              Sorry for the trip down memory lane, but it is important to keep gun prices in context to the times.....3k today is not so bad for an average.....as the money value has gone to crap over the last 40 years....and I see no end in sight.

              Comment


                #8
                I'd be interested in learning how many guns (k98s, lugers, g43s,etc) were imported in the 50's and 60's versus actually brought back by vets. I'd bet not as many of these guns floating around are bring backs as you'd think.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by the_stig View Post
                  I'd be interested in learning how many guns (k98s, lugers, g43s,etc) were imported in the 50's and 60's versus actually brought back by vets. I'd bet not as many of these guns floating around are bring backs as you'd think.
                  I agree, but again I have never put any premium on the fact (or claim) that something was brought back by a vet...papers with it or not. Certain items that had a story that I knew from the vet (and believed) are different......but no one pays for the story.....so I guess those will end with me.

                  Really I just have never felt the excitement that others feel when a see a P.38 with a permission doc. dated Nov. 45 for a a guy in a transport unit to posses the pistol....I'd just soon have one in equal condition and rarity that came over in 1955 via an importer.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    my father turned into a military collector years later but, he bought tons of military rifles back in the 1960s. think he graduated in 66.
                    any how, he bought U.S., german, Italian , ect. real cheap from the local K MART.
                    he lived in north east Indiana , no gun shows in that area. lived on a farm ,with his brothers.
                    killing time & foxes in this small town.
                    he never saved any of them , but his brothers did.
                    I believe yellow front was around then too , selling military guns.
                    back then mail ordering was big too , with little restrictions .
                    jeff

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by jh-ss44 View Post
                      my father turned into a military collector years later but, he bought tons of military rifles back in the 1960s. think he graduated in 66.
                      any how, he bought U.S., german, Italian , ect. real cheap from the local K MART.
                      he lived in north east Indiana , no gun shows in that area. lived on a farm ,with his brothers.
                      killing time & foxes in this small town.
                      he never saved any of them , but his brothers did.
                      I believe yellow front was around then too , selling military guns.
                      back then mail ordering was big too , with little restrictions .
                      jeff
                      au contraire, Arizona guy!
                      There were many gun shows in NE Indiana in the 1960's.
                      Ft. Wayne, Hartford City, Muncie, Angola, South Bend, Elkhart, Tipton, etc. Also one in Coldwater, Michigan just across the line. What town did your dad live in?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        just relating what dear old dad stated. Bluffton ,Ind. poor farmer family of 7.
                        but ,he DID say K-MART !!! so did uncle Jim.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by jh-ss44 View Post
                          just relating what dear old dad stated. Bluffton ,Ind. poor farmer family of 7.
                          but ,he DID say K-MART !!! so did uncle Jim.
                          That would probably have been the K-Mart on the south side of Ft. Wayne. I do remember when they were selling military rifles there...

                          Comment

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