Underwood M-1 Carbine

[EKman]

Greetings gents,

I am trying to learn a bit about this M-1 Carbine and have hit a brick wall with my own research, so I was hoping someone here could help out a bit. First off, let me say that I don't really need a value, I'm not asking for an appraisal.

From what I have found throughsearching the web and this forum, Underwood seems to be one of the less common makers of these weapons.

I haven't been able to find any stamps or marks on the stock. I may be wrong, but doesn't the absence of such marks seen to indicate that this rifle has not been arsenal refinished?

Based on the photos I have seen, the metal finish looks to be original to this rifle as well as the finish to the stock.

I suppose that what I am asking is this: Is it possible to determine whether or not this rifle is in original condition or has it been refurbished? The bit of research I have done seems to indicate that it is in original condition.

Also, can anyone give me a date of construction based on the serial number. I haven't been able to find that information anywhere.

Thanks,

Chris

[EKman]

The SN is: 1614194

[EKman]

If anyone wants any additional photos, please let me know.

I can't tell if the front sight has been messed with or not. Based on some photos, this does not seem to be the original configuration. However, I see some other M-1 cabines with front sights like this that claim to be untouched.

Any help would be appreciated,

Chris

[Ronnie Fry]

EKman
The stock has most certainly been refinished. That is likely the reason you can't find any marks.. You should check the sling well... Usually if refinished, they don't go to the trouble to get agressive with the sanding there. However, just from the shape, it could be "original" as it is what is termed "high wood".. This from the wood remaining in front of the slide.. It was removed during most of the refurbs, if not before.
The safety and mag release could be original. Can't tell from photos.
The front sight has had it's ears cut off.
No bayonet lug is a possible sign of no refurb. Depending on the date of mfg, and the veracity of the PO's. Unscrupulous sellers oft remove the lug to try to pass the rifle as early.
I don't have access to my references at this time. Perhaps someone else can help you with a date of mfgr. Of course, the bbl date is a start.

r

[robcox1]

It's a small photo to go on, but it does look like the bayonet lug was removed as the area of the barrel where it would have been reflects light differently in the photo. The bayonet lug protected that area of the barrel as the finish aged.

2011-08-10_0659.jpg

[jh-ss44]

the barrel date is 1943 (strangely with out the month number before it).
for m-1 carbines , there was a large push to get them out the door. ussually the month date on the barrel was with in a a month or 2 away from the completion of rifle .
IE., barrel 1-43 , gun completed , jan., feb.,march of 43.


stock looks refinished. even war time replacement stocks will have an ordnance bomb stamped where the sling goes. any other markings = might be factory.

need more photos of mag. release /safety catch .
Rear sight is not correct = was not used in 1943. but could have been replaced during the war (original damaged).

good sign ,no bayonet lug & no re-arsenal marking = Which are ussually deep.

O.K. serial number is 1,614,194....... receiver made by QUALITY HARDWARE & MACHINE CO.
contract of june 1943 = 1,562,520 - 1,662,519. this was their block of numbers.

but 1 issue from my notes / book . quality hardware DID NOT take any barrels from underwood (at all) . they took 3,080 barrels from the rock-ola music co. 04-07-43. and rock never took barrels from any one , had their own supplier.
so , looks like the barrel is not factory.
let's see if any one else has comments. jeff

[Johnny Peppers]

The stock has been sanded severely as evidenced by the amount of trigger housing exposed on the bottom. This would not have been done by an arsenal.
The month would be to the left of the 43, and there appears to be a ghost 4 right under the R in Underwood. The month and year would be separated by a dash, and there appears to be a displaced dash to the left and above the 43. Appears to be a die alignment problem on that barrel.
The front sight doesn't appear to have been removed, which would have to be done to change the barrel band. The narrow band on the Carbine now would be proper for the date it was manufactured. The rear sight is later, but would have been easier to change than the barrel band.
Quality Hardware did not manufacture any barrels, and all barrels were obtained from the "free issue" barrel program. According to Ruth, QHMC did receive barrels from Underwood.

[EKman]

Thank you all for the respones, they have been very informative. Here are some additional pictures I took of areas that were in question on this rifle.

First up, here are some shots of the sling well. I still do not find any markings on the stock.

[EKman]

A couple more from the other side.

[EKman]

Here are some photos of the safety button and the mag release area.

I found a marking that I had not noticed before when taking these photos. On the mag release slide, there is a stamp "LTQ"

[EKman]

Here is the push-button safety.

[EKman]

It all seems to sit snugly in the stock.

[EKman]

I had read some info about these bayonet lugs being added to M-1s after World War II. I never found a precise date, but I checked this one for evidence of ever having had a lug either added or removed and can find none.

[EKman]

I think in the photo bobcox1 pointed out there is just a problem of lighting that made the area appear lighter than the surrounding metal.

I also noticed a "U" (I assume for Underwood) stamped on the front band. The band does not look as though it has ever been off of the rifle. I'd be interested to see what the wood looks like underneath.

[EKman]

Here are some closer pics of the rear sight area. As you can see, there is a mark there as well.