PIAT, some questions please

[hchris]

Hey all, I have some PIAT questions please.

This weapon is really fantastic and I have been reading about it a lot, but some things are still not very clear to me and I cannot find the answer anywhere, so I thought I should ask the specialists here

My questions are:

1) Do you know what the labeled thing is in this photo? As I understand from the official manuals aiming is only done via the 3 back sight holes (marked with 50, 80, 110 yards). The manuals never mention adjusting the sight itself like lowering/upping it using this label. So what is this for then?

2) I read there are Mark 1, 1A, 2, 3 and 4 ammo variants which all behave pretty much the same except a few minor things. I read penetration is the same for all of them. With mark 3 the fuze was changed from the No.425 to No.426 (flat nose to round nose with a small ball inside). I read this improved the fuze arc (maximum angle of impact so the fuze works) was improved. What was the fuze arc for No. 425, what was it for No. 426? Couldn't find this detail anywhere.

3) When were the different variants introduced to the battlefield? When did they see serice?

Mark 1:?
Mark 1A:?
Mark 2:?
Mark 3:?
Mark 4:?


Any help would be greatly appreciated! I am fascinated by this thing but getting information is really complicated

[Aktivisti]

I'll try to guess the no 1: What if PIAT has a theoretical maximum range of 370 yards and practical maximum range of 110 yards (for vehicle targets)?

In that case simple flip-up sight with few holes could be used for aiming in ranges between 0-110 yards and a adjustable sight (base) would then used for ranges between 100-370 yards. So that would be a adjustable sight (base) with range tables (100-200-300 yards) for both high-angle (HA) and low-angle (LA) trajectories.

But as said, just an uneducated guess.

[Infanteer]

Hmmm, HA (high angle?) and at the other end is LA (low angle?) which is the two modes that small caliber mortars can be fired.... can the PIAT be used as an improvised mortar to fire it's bombs in an indirect mode?

[Aktivisti]

can the PIAT be used as an improvised mortar to fire it's bombs in an indirect mode?

It's not indirect firing per se, as the gunner would still aim directly at the target. There seems to be no level nor horizontal adjustment for the sight in PIAT - both kinda basic requirements for indirect fire.

IMHO, it's just adjustable "long range" sight with the option of using both high angle (>45 deg) and low-angle (<45 deg) trajectories.

Using high-angle would give you the chance of hitting the (much thinner) top side of the armored target, but would make the slow round even more susceptible to wind drift and also makes any error in range estimation (or deviation of launch velocity due to temp etc) more severe.

[jh-ss44]

Sorry I can not answer any of the questions. I actually own one of these... AND I can't find info. either. I do not own the manual(s).
Major pain in the butt to cock it , weighs to much, ect. ,ect.
god only knows why they had the various models .
seem to work well in the field.
mine is missing both of the canvas covers.
interesting item never the less. jeff

[scotty1418]

I believe Infanteer has it. Most were commonly issued with a mortar platform to fit shells in as well. These were designed to be used as a mortar as well as a more direct anti-tank bazooka.

[Aktivisti]

Scotty, while I don't own a PIAT or even a manual for it, based on my user experience with various mortars and anti-tank systems I believe that the simple platform adapter you are referring to is just for sub-caliber training rounds.

If you think about it, I'm sure you will see that there is no way a British 2-inch, or any other, standard mortar rounds could be used in an open tube of PIAT with just a simple platform adapter. If you think otherwise, you might want to re-check the basic operating priciples of both PIAT (spigot-mortar) and mortar. At minimum one would need specially constructed tail sections for each mortar round.

The whole adapter thing would also make little or no sense tactically, as the standard British Mk II 2" mortar weights just 10 lbs, is both faster and safer system for shooting mortar bombs, and has much better max range (370 vs. 500 yards).

[hchris]

From what I understand, but don't take this as definitive, only my understanding.

LA = Low Angle

HA = High Angle

If you use the PIAT as anti tank weapon, direct fire, shoulder mounted, you set the sights to LA 1. Then you can use the holes in the sight which are intended for 50, 80, 110 yards.

If you use the PIAT in a house breaking role, direct fire, shoulder mounted you adjust the setting at the scale of LA to 2,3 for 200 and 300m. You can then use the holes in the sight for 150, 180, 210 and 250, 280, 310.

The other option is to use the PIAT with the front support fully extended and the shoulder-piece on the ground (this is from the manual). This was only used for house breaking, think about it like indirect fire.

In this case you would set the sight to HA for high angle and use the sights the same way as described above.

[dougieboy1]

I was having a tidy up today and i found 2 PIAT related items

1. Manual for the PIAT dated '1942 with amendments No1' so assume this version is post 1942, most likely 1943 or 1944.

2. A commemorative booklet issued in 1945 to workers at ICI who apparently were responsible for production of both weapon and ammunition. It is imaginatively called 'PIAT'.

Enough already said on the LA and HA. REgarding the ammunition question, I wonder if there is some confusion. The manual states:

' Four types of ammunition are provided: -
I - Bomb HE/AT
II - Bomb, Practice Inert/AT
III - Bomb, Drill/AT
iV - Shot, Practice/AT

Later it says

I - Colour - Green
Identification marks - Filling band of RED x-x-x-x

II - Colour - Black
Identification marks - INERT in white letters on body, Yellow ring 1/2 in wide round body

III - Colour - Black
Identification marks - DRILL in white letters on the body

IV - Colour white

So,
I = LIVE = Fused and charged
II = INERT = fused,no charge i.e. can be fired
III = DRILL = no fuse, no charge
IV = Shot (mortar rather than PIAT ammo = fused, no charge, i.e. can be fired

There is a reference to IA in the manual but this is a referenece to using ammunition in the LA mode and is effectively a typo.

So I think that in actual fact, there is only one type of live ammunition for PIAT, the standard HE/AT round.

And here is a photo of a piat round i have in my collection, which conforms to none of the markings listed above!



The thing below it is, I believe, the firing fuse in its carrier which snaps onto the fin prior to fusing the bomb

[Seaforth72]

PIAT PRACTICE SHOT &amp; tray, not mortar bomb

The practice shot for the PIAT looks a lot like a Viet Cong stick hand grenade. These were steel, painted white, and were fired using the PIAT insert tray. Shot is reusable steel two-piece (cap and body.) The catridge was changed each time.

I was having a tidy up today and i found 2 PIAT related items

1. Manual for the PIAT dated '1942 with amendments No1' so assume this version is post 1942, most likely 1943 or 1944.

2. A commemorative booklet issued in 1945 to workers at ICI who apparently were responsible for production of both weapon and ammunition. It is imaginatively called 'PIAT'.

Enough already said on the LA and HA. REgarding the ammunition question, I wonder if there is some confusion. The manual states:

' Four types of ammunition are provided: -
I - Bomb HE/AT
II - Bomb, Practice Inert/AT
III - Bomb, Drill/AT
iV - Shot, Practice/AT

Later it says

I - Colour - Green
Identification marks - Filling band of RED x-x-x-x

II - Colour - Black
Identification marks - INERT in white letters on body, Yellow ring 1/2 in wide round body

III - Colour - Black
Identification marks - DRILL in white letters on the body

IV - Colour white

So,
I = LIVE = Fused and charged
II = INERT = fused,no charge i.e. can be fired
III = DRILL = no fuse, no charge
IV = Shot (mortar rather than PIAT ammo = fused, no charge, i.e. can be fired

There is a reference to IA in the manual but this is a referenece to using ammunition in the LA mode and is effectively a typo.

So I think that in actual fact, there is only one type of live ammunition for PIAT, the standard HE/AT round.

And here is a photo of a piat round i have in my collection, which conforms to none of the markings listed above!



The thing below it is, I believe, the firing fuse in its carrier which snaps onto the fin prior to fusing the bomb