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**-Ray-** · 05-12-2011, 10:37 PM

"Get-Some!!!" Steady grip/control you have there.

-Ray-

**ValhallaMilitaria** · 05-13-2011, 05:55 AM

You need to sell a LOT of militaria to own and feed those!

**Craig Gottlieb** · 05-13-2011, 07:36 AM

I do it the cheap way - I built it (I'm a licensed 07 manufacturer).

**Alan Smith** · 05-13-2011, 11:58 AM

Good deal, Craig.

BTW: How the heck did you get the full auto permit from California DOJ? My understanding is that these are virtually impossible for private citizens to obtain and that CA DOJ typically only issues them to movie prop supply companies as a matter of "economic development" to help the movie industry.

**Craig Gottlieb** · 05-13-2011, 12:24 PM

I've got one of the few of these permits, as we do motion picture work, in addition to military and law enforcement sales. Here's an example of what the permit looks like, with some private details obscured. There are very few of these issued in California, and nobody really knows what these look like.

Attached Files

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**james m** · 05-13-2011, 01:23 PM

Califonia is tough from my understanding but over here in Arizona virtually anyone who can pass the appropriate background checks and meet other criteria can get a Class II license and pay the SOT(Special Occupation Tax). The SOT permits a holder to manufacture and possess one example each of full auto weaponery. My gun club which is a SOT has a Model 1928A1 Thompson and a M1A1 Thompson both of which are used along with about 30 other full autos as rentals.
Note however: that they cannot concurrently possess two Model 28s or two M1A1s. If one of the full autos wears out and needs to be replaced as happens with the news sheet metal guns like MP5s. The receiver for the existing gun must be destroyed before a replaement can be built.
I often do the routine maintenance on these and our Model 28 has have over 1,000,000 rounds thru it and is on it's 3rd barrel.
Thompsons are a blast to shoot and I often run a couple of mags thru these. If anyone on the forum get an opportunity to shoot one or any other full auto weapon for that matter jump at the chance!
Jim

**Craig Gottlieb** · 05-13-2011, 01:46 PM

Jim is right - in any other state, being an 07 SOT is not a big deal. In California, there are less than 10. Where Jim is incorrect is in the rules regarding manufacturing quotas. I can produce and possess 1000 SMGs of a particular variety, if I wish. The only thing I cannot do is buy or possess brand new machine guns NOT manufactured by me. So, for my KRISS Vector SMG, we have 2, and cannot order another. But for the stuff I make, I can make unlimited quantities to support the mission requirement. It's a technicality, but an important one.

**james m** · 05-13-2011, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb View Post

Jim is right - in any other state, being an 07 SOT is not a big deal. In California, there are less than 10. Where Jim is incorrect is in the rules regarding manufacturing quotas. I can produce and possess 1000 SMGs of a particular variety, if I wish. The only thing I cannot do is buy or possess brand new machine guns NOT manufactured by me. So, for my KRISS Vector SMG, we have 2, and cannot order another. But for the stuff I make, I can make unlimited quantities to support the mission requirement. It's a technicality, but an important one.

Criag is right from the following perspective. I shoul have qualified my previous post as I have done below.
A Class II SOT can manufacture any number of full auto weapons for a qualified client. I have a friend who built 1000 AK 47s full auto but blank firing only for the military for training purposes. This was a couple of years ago and I remember walking into his shop where there were pallets of AK kits waiting to be re-activated. Again; my own facility built several short barreled shotguns for one of the police agencies recently.
However; It is my understanding that an SOT cannot concurrently have two examples of a particular restricted weapon in their possession for their oun personal use. In my clubs case personal use would be as a rental.
Craig: As an aside I just recently learned that you are becoming a father. Best wishes to you and your wife.

Jim

**Alan Smith** · 05-13-2011, 02:40 PM

Good stuff, Craig. Thanks for posting a copy of the elusive California DOJ permit!

**Craig Gottlieb** · 05-13-2011, 03:07 PM

Jim: I can pre-manufacture anything I want, with no order in hand. What I cannot do is BUY another manufacturer's gun, in quantities more than 2. There are some special exceptions. As for kids, I am trying to have them one at a time.

**james m** · 05-13-2011, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb View Post

Jim: I can pre-manufacture anything I want, with no order in hand. What I cannot do is BUY another manufacturer's gun, in quantities more than 2. There are some special exceptions. As for kids, I am trying to have them one at a time.

Craig:
I think we're splitting hairs here and you can manufacturer anything you want in any quantity you want. However; In the environment I operate in it what use it's put to that's the critical point and determining factor as to what's built.
It would make little sense to build several Thompsons for example just to have them. Police and other qualified buyers would be few and far between* so they would end up sitting in storage. Merchandise sitting in storage that can't be sold is a liability financially as anyone who has owned and operated a business knows. The point here is an SOT is going to have a qualified buyer before building much of anything in quantity.
I had to sit there and watch well 27 perfectly good H&K MP5s from a local police dept. were cut up to be sold off as parts sets 2 years ago. The owners of the club decided they couldn't afford to just keep them and re-sale to a qualified buyer was unlikely.
*More than likely non-existent
Jim
.

**Craig Gottlieb** · 05-13-2011, 03:37 PM

That is true, Jim. It would not make sense to manufacture 1000 Thompsons, but I could make them and possess them if I wanted. I did make my Thompson for a legitimate reason, by the way . . . to add greater depth to my field demonstrations of the KRISS Vector. I also have a UMP .45 SMG for the same purpose.

**Matt Weber** · 05-13-2011, 03:53 PM

Great video Craig! That'll always put a smile on your face!!

I take it, you cannot sell any of the guns you make yourself either?

Matt

**Craig Gottlieb** · 05-13-2011, 04:58 PM

Only to military and law enforcement, or to another dealer who has a demo letter from an agency. That is why most of the film production armories are 07 manufacturers, because they can make what they want. When I'm done with the Thompson, I will either destroy it back into a parts kit, or sell to another SOT somewhere, who lives in a town where his local police chief wants to have fun with a Thompson. We do buy and sell "fully transferrable" guns a lot, so contact me if you need anything.

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