Rifling of Johson machine gun

[Jean-Loup]

Hi guys

I asked this question on the forum a few years ago, but never did manage to get an answer. What was the rifling on the Johnson machine gun?

This question has been bothering me for years, because I have found quite a few spent bullets on First Special Service Force battlefields in France with 5 grooves to the left. The usual WW2 US weapons (M1, BAR, 30 cal MG) had 4 twists to the right. I have only found these 5 to the left bullets on FSSF battlefields, so I suspect the Johnson machine guns may have been the 'paculiar' weapon that fired them.
However, since I have never been able to find out what the rifling on the Johnsons was, I have not been able to confirm this.

Any definitive answer would be very appreciated.

JL

[Gimpy117]

yes, they were equipped with the Johnson MG. If the shoe fits...

[buccaneere]

.30 cal carbine automatic has 2 lands/grooves. (not auto-loader, but automatic) I read that yesterday, and know no better to dispute it.

Perhaps someone here might know better...

[Chet Sowersby]

The bulllet configuration that Jean-Loup shows in totaly different than .30 carbine (wether M1 or M2).

Chet

[TerryK]

Hi
The books I have all show the Johnson to have 4 to the right. How ever
one book says that the M1917 Enfield had a 5 to the left and the other
said it was 5 to the right. I no longer have mine so I can not check it. Could
these rifles be the source of the spent bullets and who would have used them
in WWII?
Terry

[Anti-Partisan]

gots me

[Jean-Loup]

The bullats shown are .30 cal rifle bullets, so something different from the carbine.

"The books I have all show the Johnson to have 4 to the right."

Thanks, this is the info I was looking for. So you defenetly do have several books that confirm that the Johnson had 4 twists to the right?
It would make sence that all the US weapons of the same caliber and of the same time frame would have had the same rifling, that had probably been determined to be 'ideal'.
Could you post a scan of the page from one of the books?

But in that case I really dont understand what could have fired all these 5 grove to the left bullets. I have found large numbers of them, seeming to show they were fired out of an automatic weapon. This seems to be confirmed by the fact that one of the shown bullets is armor piercing. I would ahve to check but I think I found tracers as well.

With the few Enfields around and their slow rate of fire, finding a bullet fired from one would be quite rare.

JL

[Jean-Loup]

Reviving this thread after 5 years...
Can anyone confirm that the Johnson gun had 4 grooves to the right? Can anyone post a scan from a reliable publication on the subject?
Does anyone have an idea of what weapon could have fired large numbers of these 5 grooves to the left bullets?

Thanks

JL

[rqs]

Try this web site as it has many Johnson owners including a Johnson machine gun section.

http://johnsonautomatics.com/messageboard/

[Alan Smith]

Here is a M41 Johnson LMG that is for sale here in the U.S. ($64,000 asking price) on the Subguns.com "NFA Ads" board. The gun was posted for sale on 1/11/16, so your renewed inquiry is quite timely.

You might e-mail the owner wsdinc307@gmail.com and ask him for his personal observations concerning the rifling evident on his M41.

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&sessio n_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_for mat=long&db_id=26794&query=retrieval

Good luck!

Alan

[Jean-Loup]

Thanks guys. I have sent emails to both the sources you mention. We will see if there is a response.

[Jean-Loup]

Didnt hear back from either one....

[bmg17a1]

Yes, the Johnson barrels on all his LMG variants were four lands and right hand twist. I own and shoot and M41 Johnson LMG and own a number of barrels including one for the 1944E1, which has a gas assist for opening the breech.
The slugs are not from a Johnson LMG.

[Johnny Peppers]

I had always heard that the original barrel for the Model 1917 Rifle had 5 groove left hand twist, but don't own one to check.

[Jean-Loup]

Thanks BMG for the info. Do you have a photo of a spent bullet from your gun?
I will have to check out all the bullets I found again, but it seems to me there were so many with 5 grooves to the left, that it would not fit for a WWII bolt rifle scenario.