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P38 (mystery?) markings?

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    P38 (mystery?) markings?

    I finally got my byf43 today. When looking at it I noticed some markings that I didn't notice when I bought it back in november. I have looked in my Buxton P38 vol. 2 for hints, but didn't find any really firm ones. There are some markings on my pistol that I don't know the meaning of:

    1. A "w" and a "w" almost linked together above eachother with an unidentifiable "x" or something similar above it. This mark is on the trigger guard where it attaches to the frame/handle. The same mark is also on the underside of the barrel. Both are the same size, which is very very small.

    Can this mark be an inspector mark e.g. the initials of the inspector?

    2. Also on the trigger guard, just under the frame serial number there's a "6" or "9" or "g" depending on how you view it. The sign is "lying" down so to speak (barrel either points directly at you or directly away from you when you view it). What is that mark?

    3. On the frame just to the right of the acceptance mark "eagle over 135" and just to the left of the trigger axle hole there's a mark that reads simply "3". Does anybody know what that is?

    4. Again on the underside of the barrel (to the right of the ?inspector? mark) it reads "9 mm P.". I can't remember if reading anywhere that this is normal for P38 barrels to have such a mark?

    5. The final and perhaps most tricky question. Again on the underside of the barrel, this time to the left of the 2 previously mentioned barrel markings there's an "eagle over N". To me this eagle doesn't look like the kind of eagle that I consider a typical nazi period eagle. It looks more modern. To my surprise I have found the same type of "eagle over N" on my italian Pardini GT9 9mm pistol from the year 2002. The barrel on this pistol is machined and finished in Germany. Can it be that the "eagle over N" on my P38 has been applied by post WWII German authorities?? The resemblance between the eagles is very strong!

    If any of you happen to own a byf43 it would be great if you could examine it for the markings I mention. I'm so curious to know if other byf43's have them?

    BTW did I mention how great it feels finally to hold my own P38 after years of dreaming
    Last edited by P08; 03-29-2004, 03:40 PM.

    #2
    Hi,

    I suspect the W's that you mention are 2 stacked W's with a lower case "f" above and linking them all together. If that is what it is it is the logo of Waffen Frankonia who is a major arms dealer in Germany.

    The 9 mm P. is probably part of an import stamp. Original WWII P.38's do not have that marking as far as I know.

    E/N is a WWII commercial proof mark but since I can't see yours I can't be sure of what it is.

    I don't recognize the other markings you mention. I would suspect they are not WWII German stampings but I would have to see them first to be certain.

    Could you post pictures of what you are asking about?

    Hope this info helps you some.

    Regards, Leon
    Last edited by leondes; 03-29-2004, 06:58 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      Ok here's what I'm talking about.


      The eagle over N isn't just on the underside of the barrel. I also found it behind the safety lever as can be seen here:

      The "ww" sign on the trigger guard and barrel (here on the trigger guard):

      The "g" or "9" or "6" on the trigger guard:

      Finally the number "3" on the frame beside the acceptance mark:

      Basically I'd like to know if these marks are normal?

      Comment


        #4
        Hi,

        I have a fellow P.38 collector with me and we have looked at the markings you are questioning.

        E/N appears to be a modern German proof mark. That explains why you see it on a modern gun.

        The FWW logo is, as I said previously, the logo for Waffen Frankonia.

        The "6" or "9" or "g" is not a marking that either of us has seen on a WWII P.38. We suspect it was applied post-war.

        The small "3" next to the E/135 is probably a special inspector marking but no one knows for sure what it is. The "3" has been observed on other P.38s in the same general area and is therefore most likely a WWII era stamp.

        Regards, Leon & Jim

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for your input.

          Regarding eagle over N there were WWII guns with that also (they switched from crown over N in 1938 or so?) so it's not strictly a modern mark. However due to the look of it I think it could be a post war mark.

          The ww could be a Waffen Frankonia mark but why should a weapons dealer put such a mark on a WWII gun?

          All the marks I mention look quite "authentic". By that I mean very similar in size, font, age etc. to the (known) genuine marks. So if any marks are post war applied whoever did them did it with care.

          Comment


            #6
            Ok now I'm sure that the eagle over N is post war. I just took the gun apart for the first time. Yes you guessed it; more stange markings. However take a look at this picture:

            Above the serial (hard to see, sorry) to the left is the eagle over N again. Beside it is a "checkered shield" and to the right of that is another "shield" with the letters KC in it.

            The good news is that the gun was in good condition.

            Comment


              #7
              Hey just found out that the "KC" is indeed a "KG". Both are post war year codes I'm told. The checkered shield means: Beschussamt Mellrichstadt. The eagle over N is the post war Nitro approval.

              The "WWf" stands for Waffen Frankonia Würzburg so you were right about that.

              The number "3" on the frame could very well be a factory "Worker code" (Arbeiter Stempel) someone told me.

              Comment


                #8
                Just in case anyone cares:


                I just found the number "3" on the locking block of a "non-legalized" (it means no import marks) AC42. So it most likely is a genuine WWII mark.

                Comment

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