MG34s on the European market?

[jjprzewozniak]

Hey all,

I'm considering purchasing an MG34 for our museum. Currently I'm gathering info on finding a good specimen here in the USA. Once, a pal told me that those things were much more inexpensive and available on the European market. Just out of curiosity, what's the going rate for a reenactor-grade MG34 in Europe these days? I don't read any European languages so I beg the help of those talented multi-lingual members here. I'd love to know just how much more we Americans are paying for trans-Atlantic shipment and very limited supply.

Best,
JJ

[jiipee76]

Deactivated ones cost about 1500euros(about 1900$) here in northern europe.

Working ones are cheaper but their market is virtually dead right now becouse of the gun laws tightening.

[Heinz Steinkopf]

I guess the main proplem will be caused by the difference between European and American gun laws. Here in Eurpoe the barrel and the bolt are the controlled parts that must be deactivated and in US it is the receiver that must be demilled. In addition, as far as I know there are some import restrictions concerning the deactivated guns in th US. Let the guys from the US explain in detail.

[foy1944]

belgium

hi sir ,i am from belgium and in januari this year i bought a mint ,but deactivated ,dot 1943 mg 34 on the fair in wavre . i paid 1200 euro's .
last week a friend of mine bought one from a private collection for 950 euro's ,it was in a good but more used condition .
an mg 42 cost's abouth 1000 euro .
the hardest thing will be the way of belgian deactivation for you !
it will not be good for the US goverment-rules .
hope it was helpfull for you...
best regards ,jo

[Hans Zeug]

Mg34 for sale at Beltring.

Hi, quite a lot of mg34s for sale at the Beltring show over here in England this year. I think they were going for about £850 ($ 1,336 ) they were mainly dot marked. regards David.

[jjprzewozniak]

So deactivation laws differ by country? Or is it uniform all of Europe and the UK? What's the difference between controlled parts and deactivated parts? I've seen some stuff for sale in the US has torch-cut recievers; is it like that overseas or are the pieces even further altered?

Best,
JJ

[foy1944]

different laws

hi JJ ,

i think you just opened a "snake-pit" ,it is so difficult and confusing here in europe...
i try to explain it a bid .
in every european country it is different !
two examples i know ;
-belgium : we can own every gun there exists ,but it has to be deactivated in the official factory in herstal ,a stamp is added on the gun (lion with crown) and a paper with the gun-info has to stay with it . next to that we also have a list (32 pages !!!) with free guns ,you can have them with out anny document ,they are fully functional (examples ; K98k ,walther .22 rifle ,swiss luger ,sporting rifles ,front loaders ,...)

-netherlands : the only gun that is aloud is a deactivated mauser K98k ,al the rest is forbidden exept when you have a museum-licence (but hard to get !!!!)

in the rest of europe it is different to...

way of deactivation in belgium :
-first of all it depents on the fact who is president of the factory at the time of deactivation . a gun-lover shall not do much (firing-pin ,welded barrel) ,a gun-hater would try to cut it in half by manner of speaking !

-you can see the difference clearly with my mg34 and mg42 ;
*mg34 :butstock welded ,barrel welded and not removable ,moving parts in the topcover welded ,"knop" on top of recever cut of ,fireing-pin cut of ,topcover welded shut (i opened it) . you can arm the gun and dryfire it

*mg42 : barrel welded ,fireing-pin cut of ,topcover welded shut (i opened it) . can be stripped abouth half ,can dryfire .

you see ? deactivated in the same factory ,but on another year with different president !

hope i could help you a bid ,
best regards ,jo

ps; if you want pics of the deactivated parts ,just ask me

[tracman]

hi JJ ,

i think you just opened a "snake-pit" ,it is so difficult and confusing here in europe...
i try to explain it a bid .
in every european country it is different !
two examples i know ;
-belgium : we can own every gun there exists ,but it has to be deactivated in the official factory in herstal ,a stamp is added on the gun (lion with crown) and a paper with the gun-info has to stay with it . next to that we also have a list (32 pages !!!) with free guns ,you can have them with out anny document ,they are fully functional (examples ; K98k ,walther .22 rifle ,swiss luger ,sporting rifles ,front loaders ,...)

-netherlands : the only gun that is aloud is a deactivated mauser K98k ,al the rest is forbidden exept when you have a museum-licence (but hard to get !!!!)

in the rest of europe it is different to...

way of deactivation in belgium :
-first of all it depents on the fact who is president of the factory at the time of deactivation . a gun-lover shall not do much (firing-pin ,welded barrel) ,a gun-hater would try to cut it in half by manner of speaking !

-you can see the difference clearly with my mg34 and mg42 ;
*mg34 :butstock welded ,barrel welded and not removable ,moving parts in the topcover welded ,"knop" on top of recever cut of ,fireing-pin cut of ,topcover welded shut (i opened it) . you can arm the gun and dryfire it

*mg42 : barrel welded ,fireing-pin cut of ,topcover welded shut (i opened it) . can be stripped abouth half ,can dryfire .

you see ? deactivated in the same factory ,but on another year with different president !

hope i could help you a bid ,
best regards ,jo

ps; if you want pics of the deactivated parts ,just ask me

Indeed, the laws in Europe don't just differ from country to country, they also differ over time, as legislation changes, in which case many older deactivated firearms may have more functioning parts than more recent deactivations.

That said, the broad principles are that, in the US, deactivation involves cutting the receiver, which means that even an excellent cosmetic restoration usually can't remove traces of the cuts. Generally, in Europe, the internals and barrel are deactivated, leaving the firearm cosmetically whole. Techniques include welding a pin in the barrel, reaming out the barrel (until its last few centimeters, so that one can still see the rifling in them) and chamber to prevent the chambering of any round, welding the firing pin to the bolt, welding the bolt to the receiver, welding internal hammers so they can't be armed, etc... Frankly, legislation on this matter is so confusing that I would altogether avoid trying to move a deactivated firearm from one country to another, at least not before consulting with a lawyer to determine what you can and can't do.

The scarcity of full auto firearms in the U.S. is largely due to the GCA of 1968, which essentially froze supplies of foreign-made full auto weapons available as Class III firearms. Naturally, one can procure parts kits, without the receiver, and one can attach these parts to a dummy receiver to make a passable copy of a firearm for display purposes, but those are arguably not as convincing as most European deactivated weapons, which are complete and don't appear to be deactivated or otherwise tampered with... until one tries their mechanical functions. Of course, you can't import these into the US, since their receivers aren't cut, and thus are considered fully functioning firearms in the eyes of the law.

[jiipee76]

So deactivation laws differ by country? Or is it uniform all of Europe and the UK? What's the difference between controlled parts and deactivated parts? I've seen some stuff for sale in the US has torch-cut recievers; is it like that overseas or are the pieces even further altered?

Best,
JJ

Actually European Union have now common laws(or more like RULES) to deactivation.I dont know does every country inside EU also support them.I have noticed that atleast Germany,Finland and Austria have common deactivation rules now.I believe many other european countries also support same rules.

European Union Gun Directive made rules for deactivation common inside EU countries.EU Gun Directive came active 28th of July 2010.So after that date all countries should have common laws/rules for deactivation.

EU Law says:
-Bolt head must be cut off in 45degree angle or remove bolt needle completely.
-Barrel must be drilled from full lenght with holes in same size than caliber(with 50mm distance between holes) is
OR whole barrel must have full lenght 1mm cut in it.
-Also the cartridge chamber gotta have hole in it of 4/5 lenght

UK propably have their own rules,even they are EU members.

I wonder why UK does have so much of those MG34´s and other german WW2 weaponry... Even my MG34 has come from there in early 1980´s.

[Schmeisserfan]

hey,
for the moment, there are super many deactivated mg34s on the market . The best price at egun I noticed with about 1000 euros

[FestungSpanien]

I guess price depends on many factors: blueing, matching numbers, type of deactivation (old one facing a new one with no moveable parts), markings (it is not the same thing buying an early marked BSW than a common dot 43-45 marked one for example), russian capture markings, accesories,etc...

[Heinz Steinkopf]

hey,
for the moment, there are super many deactivated mg34s on the market . The best price at egun I noticed with about 1000 euros

As far as I remember it had Czech ZB bipod.

[jjprzewozniak]

I have an observation.

While European mg34 deacts may be less expensive than some American counterparts, they have more alterations than one from the US. What I mean is that in the US you only have to have a cut receiver. Then you can either get a dummy one, make a semi, etc. By contrast, getting one from Europe, with the drilled barrel, maybe it's welded to the gun (making a very important part of the artifact useless), the screwed up bolt, etc., AND having to cut the receiver if you wanted to import it just seems ridiculous to me. With all the extra machining, etc., you'd be stuck with, it looks like a waste, and may even be more expensive in the long run.

Do you agree?

btw, I'm basing my prices on sites like these:

http://www.mg42.us/viewforum.php?f=36
http://www.tnwfirearms.com/guns_mg34.shtml
http://www.philaord.com/products/mg34.html
http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merch...e=PK+PARTSKITS

Best,
JJ

[jiipee76]

I have an observation.

While European mg34 deacts may be less expensive than some American counterparts, they have more alterations than one from the US. What I mean is that in the US you only have to have a cut receiver. Then you can either get a dummy one, make a semi, etc. By contrast, getting one from Europe, with the drilled barrel, maybe it's welded to the gun (making a very important part of the artifact useless), the screwed up bolt, etc., AND having to cut the receiver if you wanted to import it just seems ridiculous to me. With all the extra machining, etc., you'd be stuck with, it looks like a waste, and may even be more expensive in the long run.

Do you agree?

What comes to weaponry of anykind,you get it cheaper from US.Market of these items are much bigger behind Atlantic.Actually almost all german wartime militaria is cheaper there.That is one reason why i buy lots of items from there.

[foy1944]

ofcourse you are right ! the reason why our european guns are deactivated this way is very simple ; it is amost impossible to own working war-guns here ,we even have only a few firing-ranges that are for the public . and even there you can't fire every gun that exists . the law is very strict here ,but i am glad we can have de deacts ! in the netherlands it is realy bad ,the only gun you can have there is a deactevated K98k .
so it is indeed not very logic to risk buying a gun here and shipping it to the US where the gunlaws are much easyer . our deacts must look like scrap over there ,but that is the way it is ...