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**Scott A. Hess** · 07-11-2010, 02:41 PM

Well, unless I'm reading something wrong the website says that the guns can be ordered directly from the HZA Kulmbach site, and there is not any mention (although I have asked for clarification from Kulmbach) of any exclusive importer of these guns into the U.S. I do have a friend who is a liscensed firearms dealer, so I am assuming I would have to pay whatever fee he charges, probably minimal and of course whatever import duties if any are levied, and so on. I've read the site in German, and it seems apparent at least to me that I can order directly through them. I'm new to the "firearms market" so I don't claim to know all the ins and outs of buying these items from out of the country and what that entails.

**D Day Dog** · 07-11-2010, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Scott A. Hess View Post

Well, unless I'm reading something wrong the website says that the guns can be ordered directly from the HZA Kulmbach site, and there is not any mention (although I have asked for clarification from Kulmbach) of any exclusive importer of these guns into the U.S. I do have a friend who is a liscensed firearms dealer, so I am assuming I would have to pay whatever fee he charges, probably minimal and of course whatever import duties if any are levied, and so on. I've read the site in German, and it seems apparent at least to me that I can order directly through them. I'm new to the "firearms market" so I don't claim to know all the ins and outs of buying these items from out of the country and what that entails.

They cannot be imported to the USA unless they are refitted to .922r compliancy with the correct amount of USA made parts and pass inspection to make sure they cannot be easily converted to a FA. You'd have to get a licensed importer and a Form 6 filled out to get started, but you also need to have USA made parts to place on it. That's how PTR and Recon Ordnance got the BD44 in last Fall to the USA. The rifles were shipped to the USA, refitted, approved by ATF and then sold to the people who wanted one as the "PTR44". Places like Canada that don't require refitting of HZA Kulmbach/SSD weapons (except on mag. capacity I believe) can have them shipped in as is. Importation rules all depend on what country they are being shipped to. So unless you have 10 USA made parts available to place on your new rifle, sure you can order one through a licensed importer, but it's not gonna get ATF approval.

There is NO exclusive importer. HZA is actively looking at hooking up with another importer in the USA to have the USA parts made, perform the refitting, etc. PTR, Inc. and Recon are NOT going to order any more HZA Kulmbach/SSD weapons as they've had problems getting all 150 BD44 rifles they ordered to function correctly. PTR, Inc. is sold out of them, so if you want a PTR44, your gonna have to order one from Recon Ordnance and the owner, Jerry Prasser, is asking $5,000 for the few rifles he has remaining to sell.

I got a good PTR44 and it functions terrific with the right mags. I am really looking forward to the "fully USA made" FG42 Type 2s that are (hopefully) going to be available this Fall. The HZA/SSD FG42's trigger package has been examined by people here and it probably would not pass ATF inspection for easy FA conversion, so I wouldn't expect any FG42s to make it from Germany. Maybe the K43s, but that's likely it unless someone here in the USA wants to go through A LOT of trouble to have USA made parts for any of the German guns.

D Day

**Scott A. Hess** · 07-11-2010, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by D Day Dog View Post

They cannot be imported to the USA unless they are refitted to .922r compliancy with the correct amount of USA made parts and pass inspection to make sure they cannot be easily converted to a FA. You'd have to get a licensed importer and a Form 6 filled out to get started, but you also need to have USA made parts to place on it. That's how PTR and Recon Ordnance got the BD44 in last Fall to the USA. The rifles were shipped to the USA, refitted, approved by ATF and then sold to the people who wanted one as the "PTR44". Places like Canada that don't require refitting of HZA Kulmbach/SSD weapons (except on mag. capacity I believe) can have them shipped in as is. Importation rules all depend on what country they are being shipped to. So unless you have 10 USA made parts available to place on your new rifle, sure you can order one through a licensed importer, but it's not gonna get ATF approval.

There is NO exclusive importer. HZA is actively looking at hooking up with another importer in the USA to have the USA parts made, perform the refitting, etc. PTR, Inc. and Recon are NOT going to order any more HZA Kulmbach/SSD weapons as they've had problems getting all 150 BD44 rifles they ordered to function correctly. PTR, Inc. is sold out of them, so if you want a PTR44, your gonna have to order one from Recon Ordnance and the owner, Jerry Prasser, is asking $5,000 for the few rifles he has remaining to sell.

I got a good PTR44 and it functions terrific with the right mags. I am really looking forward to the "fully USA made" FG42 Type 2s that are (hopefully) going to be available this Fall. The HZA/SSD FG42's trigger package has been examined by people here and it probably would not pass ATF inspection for easy FA conversion, so I wouldn't expect any FG42s to make it from Germany. Maybe the K43s, but that's likely it unless someone here in the USA wants to go through A LOT of trouble to have USA made parts for any of the German guns.

D Day

Thanks for the Info D Day. Im looking to get the K43, and not the Mp44, in ca we couldnt even have them as repeaters with proper US parts simply due to the mag capacity, I belive its 8 or 10 in California, I think 10. Since the K43 is a straightforward "rifle" more or less, like an M1 garand which one can own and buy at any gun store in CA new from springfield armoury, I would imagine and please correct me if I'm wrong that I would be able to bypass the incorporation of US parts, etc, due to the very nature of the weapon isself not being of an assult variety nor being capable of automatic fire.

I did reread your email, are you of the opinion that EVEN a K43 has to have German parts swapped out for USA manufactured ones? I'm no expert on federal us gun laws, however it would seem that the idea behind this would to be to prevent weapons such as the MP44 which were originally designed for FA fire to have insurances built in that prevent it from being converted from semi auto as shipped into FA once imported into the US. I would think such would not be the case with the K43 repeater, but, I could be wrong. In the end, if it's too much hassle to bring in and buy one of the new german K43's, I'll simply look for a pre 45 one here and buy as a CR. I just like the idea of having a "new one" that one can fire and use as opposed to an original, which I'd love to own, but part of the beauty of owning it is firing it, and if one can be found in great shape, I don't imagine I'd be bringing it to the range on any regular basis and shooting it, which is what I'd really LIKE to do with the HZA ones.

**Josh Beckett** · 07-11-2010, 04:29 PM

It doesnt have to have US parts because its not an assault weapon. If you were to tapcof*** it like alot of people do with SKS rifles (unless you were sporterizing it, but if you did try to make it into an assault weapon) then you would have to put US parts on it.

**Ingsoc75** · 07-11-2010, 04:32 PM

I think a G43 can be imported.

**Scott A. Hess** · 07-11-2010, 04:51 PM

Thanks Josh and Ingsoc, I was hoping it would be. I don't know if CA has changed its laws recently, but I think the "pistol" grip of any of the Mp's and FG42's would preclude it from import into CA (along with the aforementioned mag capacity).....I can't imagine CA laws becoming less restrictive.

Question would I still need to go through an individual with a FFL to order the K43 from HZA/Kulmbach for shipment into CA? I think yes, but you all might know much better than I.

**Josh Beckett** · 07-11-2010, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Scott A. Hess View Post

Thanks Josh and Ingsoc, I was hoping it would be. I don't know if CA has changed its laws recently, but I think the "pistol" grip of any of the Mp's and FG42's would preclude it from import into CA (along with the aforementioned mag capacity).....I can't imagine CA laws becoming less restrictive.

Question would I still need to go through an individual with a FFL to order the K43 from HZA/Kulmbach for shipment into CA? I think yes, but you all might know much better than I.

Even if the mag capacity was lower than 10, it would still be disallowed from being shipped to CA because the mag attaches outside of the pistol grip. I believe that the G43 could be shipped to CA.

**DennyB** · 07-11-2010, 05:49 PM

I don't know how many they have sold worldwide but I do believe if they imported the machinery and built all of these models in the United States they would have a bigger market.
I may be wrong but I would suspect that there are more WW2 reenactors in the U.S. than in the rest of the world combined and wouldn't this be the biggest market for these weapons? I mean, most hunters wouldn't be interested in using a G-43 for deer hunting, not when they could have a Remington 700 BDL in 308 for less than half the cost.

**D Day Dog** · 07-11-2010, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by Scott A. Hess View Post

Thanks for the Info D Day. Im looking to get the K43, and not the Mp44, in ca we couldnt even have them as repeaters with proper US parts simply due to the mag capacity, I belive its 8 or 10 in California, I think 10. Since the K43 is a straightforward "rifle" more or less, like an M1 garand which one can own and buy at any gun store in CA new from springfield armoury, I would imagine and please correct me if I'm wrong that I would be able to bypass the incorporation of US parts, etc, due to the very nature of the weapon isself not being of an assult variety nor being capable of automatic fire.

I did reread your email, are you of the opinion that EVEN a K43 has to have German parts swapped out for USA manufactured ones? I'm no expert on federal us gun laws, however it would seem that the idea behind this would to be to prevent weapons such as the MP44 which were originally designed for FA fire to have insurances built in that prevent it from being converted from semi auto as shipped into FA once imported into the US. I would think such would not be the case with the K43 repeater, but, I could be wrong. In the end, if it's too much hassle to bring in and buy one of the new german K43's, I'll simply look for a pre 45 one here and buy as a CR. I just like the idea of having a "new one" that one can fire and use as opposed to an original, which I'd love to own, but part of the beauty of owning it is firing it, and if one can be found in great shape, I don't imagine I'd be bringing it to the range on any regular basis and shooting it, which is what I'd really LIKE to do with the HZA ones.

It's about the sporting clause of rifles. Basically, they have to not have been originally manufactured as a MG or assault rifle and not have assault rifle type features on them such as a pistol grip. That's why ATF rejected the BD44 as-is for import from the first importer, Steve Mullinex, who sued ATF and lost. After that, the idea was, when the BD44 was going to be imported, to place a thumbhole stock on it and a magazine breakthrough to "sporterize" them. There would then be no need to classify them as an assault rifle subject to the 922r provsions. When they got here, they would be refitted with the proper USA parts count and resold to look just like an MP44.

That being said, the K43 shouldn't have the scrutiny of an assault rifle or MG. As a semi, they might need to import them with a magazine breakthrough which is simply a piece of metal that sits at the bottom of a magazine well that can easily be taken off for a full sized magazine to be inserted. That's not a lot of effort on the manufacturer's side, but will increase unit cost to the USA importer. So if the K43s do make it here, don't be surpised if you see them priced close to $3500 - $4000 as they are currently $2500+ USD on the Euro v. dollar exchange rate and you have to account for import fees, possible minor refitting, magazines, and... greed... to capitalize on a new product that would certainly be in demand. The BD44 started out at SRP of $3000 per I.O., Inc., who failed to bring them in, and now they are priced at $5000 through Recon Ordnance (who partnered with PTR, Inc.). Recon is the only game in town.

As mentioned, the 1 thing that would concern me about the K43 is the magazine size as, arguably, ATF may NOT consider it a sport rifle with such a large magazine (ATF makes and breaks their rules and, often, interpretation varies in their office). IMO, it shouldn't have much problems getting here. If someone with the money had the gumption to order one, they need to get a licensed importer to handle it, fill out the Form 6 approval, pay for the firearm, and then wait and see if ATF is in a good mood when it gets here to not scrutinize it incorrectly. If ATF approves it, then done - it is sent to your licensed importer and he releases it to you. It sounds simple, but it usually takes a while to go through and you take the chance of NOT getting your rifle and wasting your money.

If I was a millionaire, I would try it. I'm not, so I'm waiting to see if a company here brings them in.

**D Day Dog** · 07-11-2010, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by DennyB View Post

I don't know how many they have sold worldwide but I do believe if they imported the machinery and built all of these models in the United States they would have a bigger market.
I may be wrong but I would suspect that there are more WW2 reenactors in the U.S. than in the rest of the world combined and wouldn't this be the biggest market for these weapons? I mean, most hunters wouldn't be interested in using a G-43 for deer hunting, not when they could have a Remington 700 BDL in 308 for less than half the cost.

I totally agree with this idea. Import the equipment and dies, then pay HZA/SSD (or whomever) a cut for each one sold. If they did it this way, it would be much cheaper and they would sell 1000s of these firearms in the USA alone.

**D Day Dog** · 07-11-2010, 08:34 PM

BTW: There are a few guys who got the PTR44 brought into CA - legally - by attaching a fin on the pistol grip. Looks silly, but it's better than nothing.

**Scott A. Hess** · 07-12-2010, 02:31 AM

Hello D Day, thanks for all the sound advice, sounds all reasonable. At this point, maybe its just better to hunt down a "real one" that is already here for the same or less $$$ and avoid the possible loss of cash. Its sad, but I certainly don't want to be at the mercy of the ATF and our wonderful government.

**D Day Dog** · 07-12-2010, 11:48 AM

You can pick up a good shooter K43 for as low as $1200 - $1500. I have seen them as high as $3000+ for very good condition. Check GB as they periodically have some nice ones for sale.

**Scott A. Hess** · 07-13-2010, 03:27 PM

Thanks D Day, what by the way is "GB"? which site that is?

**D Day Dog** · 07-13-2010, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Scott A. Hess View Post

Thanks D Day, what by the way is "GB"? which site that is?

Gunbrokers.com. They are the biggest online guns for sale personal adds for ALL types of guns and gun parts/supplies for sale anywhere in the USA. You don't need to be a member to look thru the listings, but you will need to be a member to bid or buy. There are a few G/K43s on there right now. But take your time and ask LOTS of questions before you consider ANY purchase. Here's a link:

http://www.gunbroker.com/

The G/K43forum.com I belong to is another good place to get loads of info. on G/K43 rifles. I'm not a fan of them myself, but the G/K43forum will jump all over any questions you may have about a pending purchase or just basic info. on those guns. The guys are great help. Here's a link:

http://gk43forum.com/forum/index.php

Enjoy!

D Day

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