"Blood Marks"... How to tell???

[Gary Cain]

The vast majority of so called "blood stains" is crap. As has been said it is to absolve the current owner of poor preservation. There are a lot of publications in the forensic field dealing with blood and other bodily fluids (one of my favorites is "The Flight Characteristics of Human Blood" published at least 35 years ago, my copy is currently in storage so you'll have to wait to see the cover!) and the one characteristic you see over and over is it is a stain that has very, very minor pitting, almost a light frosting if you will. Additionally the staining will exhibit a a liquid shape. The Type 99 is an excellent example of all of these features. There is no heavy pitting instead it is a light frosting which clearly was depostied by a liquid. The only weapon I have with verifiable blood staining is this ac42 P.38. There is a very light blood stain above the trigger guard where the man was injured and his blood got on the pistol there. The veteran I bought it from quite simply said he found the pistol in the dead soldiers hand and picked it up and wiped off the blood on the uniform of the dead soldier. "Obviously I didn't do a very good job of cleaning it off" is how he put it.

[Ronnie Fry]

Thanks Gary.... What you say makes good sense... I would love to have the title, etc. of your reference book....

As you might imagine, no rush...

Good to see you at SOS...

r

[MikeP]

The MG is the 1st thing I have seen in over 50 years that makes me lean towards authenticity.

I believe 99% of "blood pitting" is pure nonsense.

I saw some bloody weapons in VN, but they got wiped off pretty quick.

I have a couple slings I took off AKs that have blood on them.

[p-59a]

I have always wondered the same about this CZ Duo that I acquired a while ago.
The finish is in perfect condition except for the spots on the slide that fit perfect to where your hand goes to cycle the slide and near the "DUO" on the slide. Also, the metal has a white patina to it instead of the usual brown patina you see to an aged finish like this.

This topic is very interesting. Years ago I worked at a gun store / shooting range. No rifles, only pistols. It seems to me the damage to your pistol comes from the holster. Moister on the inside of a leather holster will release the tannic acids used to cure the leather. The weak areas on holsters are the flap and muzzel . We would see this all the time from people who stored thier pistols in a leather holster brought thier guns in to be reblued. Never store your weapon in a leather holster over any period of time. As for the MG...I hunted for years with a sporterized 03-A4 in every kind of weather and had lots of blood over the years cover my weapon and never had marks like that...but I also kept my weapon clean. One thought could be brain splatter matter. Brains or urin are used to cure leather, the tannic acid found in them has been used for centurys. Maybe brain matter on this weapon over a day or so could be the culprit...or not!

[p-59a]

The MG is a head scratcher. If it was kept in poor storage I would expect to see sighns of exposure all over. This weapon realy looks good considering its age and history. As I posted with the pistol on this thred, based on years of hunting with my sporterized 03-A4 in all kinds of weather and its exposure to blood many times over the years I gotta say no to blood splatter and suggest the cemicals found in brain splatter may be a better suspect. Remember brains are used to cure leather. Exposure over time could be the cause...or not.

[checkit]

I always wondered what would happen if you handed something like this to a someone with psychic powers and asked them what impression they got.

[Josh Beckett]

My mauser that my great grandfather brought back has blood pitting on the action and has some blood stains in the stock. When its on the stock it will be dark.

[MikeP]

Psychics-Sticking toung out between lips and blowing hard creating very rude sound.

I have a nice Hi-Power I sold to a friend 35 years ago.
Stored in a holster all those years in a bankbox.
I reacquired it a while back. Not a mark on it.

While moving to my farm it got mixed up with some stuff in an open trailer.

I was unloading the trailer a couple days after a hard rain and discovered the pistol in a commercial cheap holster in a foot of water.

No rust, but huge random patches of finish had disapeared or tuned greyish in random patterns 50% or more.

It is a modern pistol from the 70s and I had it reblued.

You can still see where the patches were, the blueing did not quite "take" on those areas.

Anybody volunteer to bleed on some of their pieces and give reports at various intervals?

[Gary Cain]

There is no point of contact on a hard shell holster where the stain is on this pistol. I got the holster as well and there is no transfer to the holster at all. Blood is very corrosive. If it is left on the weapon for a period of time exceeding a day or two you have a chance of a stain forming. It doesn't happen all of the time by any means. It requires a set of circumstances (just like how fossils are formed, everything has to be 'right')
and if those conditions are met you can get the stain. It is very rare. Clothing as well can be affected by blood. I have a uniform to a German pioneer and you can see where the man was hit by a bullet or shell splinter. The outside had to be rewoven and the interior liner was replaced where the blood had rotted it away. It does happen...but it is very, very uncommon.

This topic is very interesting. Years ago I worked at a gun store / shooting range. No rifles, only pistols. It seems to me the damage to your pistol comes from the holster. Moister on the inside of a leather holster will release the tannic acids used to cure the leather. The weak areas on holsters are the flap and muzzel . We would see this all the time from people who stored thier pistols in a leather holster brought thier guns in to be reblued. Never store your weapon in a leather holster over any period of time. As for the MG...I hunted for years with a sporterized 03-A4 in every kind of weather and had lots of blood over the years cover my weapon and never had marks like that...but I also kept my weapon clean. One thought could be brain splatter matter. Brains or urin are used to cure leather, the tannic acid found in them has been used for centurys. Maybe brain matter on this weapon over a day or so could be the culprit...or not!

[Paul G]

Heres a strange observation! While looking at Allens post (#3) which shows the side of the receiver up close, I can see the image of the side of an Asian mans face. The damage looks like a mans face profile facing to the right, the direction in which the LMG would be firing. I can see the outline including the nose and chin area. Whats even wierder is, you can see what appears to be asian style eyes. I will see if I can photoshop the outline. Wierd!

PG-

[Paul G]

Here is what I mean.

PG-

[Paul G]

compare.

PG-

[p-59a]

I always wondered what would happen if you handed something like this to a someone with psychic powers and asked them what impression they got.

I recon I could come up with an impression. Of course the more money you paid me the better my impression would be.

[p-59a]

Psychics-Sticking toung out between lips and blowing hard creating very rude sound.

I have a nice Hi-Power I sold to a friend 35 years ago.
Stored in a holster all those years in a bankbox.
I reacquired it a while back. Not a mark on it.

While moving to my farm it got mixed up with some stuff in an open trailer.

I was unloading the trailer a couple days after a hard rain and discovered the pistol in a commercial cheap holster in a foot of water.

No rust, but huge random patches of finish had disapeared or tuned greyish in random patterns 50% or more.

It is a modern pistol from the 70s and I had it reblued.

You can still see where the patches were, the blueing did not quite "take" on those areas.

Anybody volunteer to bleed on some of their pieces and give reports at various intervals?

In the other pistol thread I posted on that was the point I was attempting to make. Most of the modern inexpensive leather is cured with urin and better leather with brain. When a holster gets wet and the moister contacts metal the tannic acid from the leather will do damage to the metal. As I said in the other post never store a weapon in leather. Pistols stored in a good holster over a period of time in dry conditions could last for years without damage, but add water to the mix just once and you can kiss your investment goodbye! It's better to not risk trashing a piece of history. On a side note the blueing compounds and methods of blueing have changed over the years. The older weapons seem to hold up better to time and weather.

[Johnny Peppers]

A holster of any type is just about the worst thing you can store a pistol in.
Tanning leather with brains is a primitive method which is not used today unless by an individual wanting to have "period" leather. Each animal had just about the right amount of brain matter to use in the tanning process. Urine was used to remove the hair from the hide to be tanned.
Probably the most desirable leather today is the vegetable tanned leather.