What's Too Much Care?

[Perry Floyd]

There's is a Third Reich firearm collector that lives near me who out of respect I dont want to name here. He has some very rare firearms and have seen most of his collection some time back. But one thing I noticed when I was there was how much oil was on the rifles, and most of the leather slings had been treated and most of his stocks were very dark. I had thought nothing about it untill I seen him at the local show several weeks ago and noticed he had decided to sell one of his K98k sniper rifles which he had with him. I took a look at it and the first thing I noticed was all the oil gathered around all the cracks and crevices, the stock was very dark and the sling felt a little sticky as well..Although I'm sure this was a rare rifle (asking $7500 I believe) the look of the rifle totally turned me off to it, even with it being probably 90-95% blue. No excitement at all handling it because of this..
To me it had lost the look of a unmessed with original, I felt it had been played with too much..
Not being in the loop of Third Reich firearm collecting is this normal? Is this accepted? To me I try and keep it in as close as possible to the way it looked when it came back. Can this be reversed?

[Jeff Ashenfelter]

Perry,
I also know a collector who used to do this to his rifle stocks. Whenever he got a new rifle he would place the stock in a pressurized linseed oil tank and treat it for days under pressure. When the process was over, the stocks looked very dark and bleed oil for years afterward. He no longer does this as the rifles he treated were hard to sell. I think it probably does have some preserving qualities, but I believe it is not necessary. I also think it devalues the item. The German rifles that I own have survived the years just fine, without treatment.
As for the slings, I have seen cases where collectors have also overdone them by applying way to much preservative. I usually do not treat them unless there is a problem. A few years back I bought a G/43 scope and mount at a rummage sale. The original leather scope caps were still on the scope but they were very brittle. I treated them with a little Loxol to get them off of the scope. They immediately fell apart. The lexol softened the leather but also seemed to disolve the thread used to attach the pieces together. I was shocked to say the least ! Jeff a

[R_Hessian]

I had a quart of Lexol and after doing some research... I dumped it. Its not what we want for our kind of items.

Excess oil can be gotten from stocks with a bit of work, even low heat will make it seep from the wood. What kind of 98k was he selling that it went for $7,500.00 ( If you don't mind me asking ).
We all have seen the efforts of some to preserve and then they end up harming or even destroying ( I've done a few dumb sthings also ) this stuff, sure seems like leather takes the real brunt of home "cures".

The tough thing is that the majority of items are in the hands of collectors so the little we see really hurts when its been @3$%& with.

Robert

[Perry Floyd]

I can't remember what maker or year, it was a K98k sniper with scope and was all matching, strong blue...

It's just one of many he has...and as I recall they all were heavily oiled, all markings highlighted in white, dark stocks, sticky leather...

[R_Hessian]

sNIPER

Perry,

I thought maybe thats what he might have, While I have a couple of snipers I would not mind getting another.
I have been trying to find someone who collects VERY nice, OLD lugers who would be willing to do some trading/cash for a nice sniper.
I just seem to find people with money, I sent pictures of two lugers on to a Luger forum ( That I also posted here ) and I got this type of response, " I will buy your two lugers... just email me with the amount needed ".... I suspect he make a few bucks to make that statement.
I was infact looking for a person with snipers... no luck!
Anyway, keep me in mind sounds like you run in some grest circles!
Robert

[Jean-Loup]

This is what I always say. Most helmet collectors want the items "as found". Weapon collectors often want everything to be shiny, clean and oiled. Probably because most of them are police/military types that were taught that a gun has to be clean and oiled.
I personaly wont touch anything that has treated leather or wood. Plus, the treatments (even greasing metal parts) are unnecesary if the rifle is kept in the proper environment.
JL

[bodes]

Perry, Rifles can be pretty much low maintenance if you want them to be. Periodic oiling of the metal parts is essential. The wood I pretty much leave alone. Maybe will lightly dab some lemon oil occasionally. I don't get overly carried away. And leather, I might use a little boot creme if drying out but do it minimally. Don't use mink oil as this sometimes leaves a film.

[HptmCox]

To clean my rifle I use some of that Hoppes No.9 stuff. I obviously clean the working parts with the lubricant stuff and then I use a small amount of the oily stuff on a patch. Then I rub it lighty on my rifle to clean it up a tad. It dries out relatively fast, not that I soak it anyways. So after a day or 2 of cleaning my rifle looks like it would have back in 45. I guess even inanimate objects want to keep looking young. Heh, joke.

[Spanky]

I would not be too concerned about the oiled stock. You can strip that pretty easily (try MP7 gun cleaner). Most WWII K.98 slings are not valuable enough to get worked up about. It's irreversible damage like sanded stocks or rebluing that I try to stay away from.

[bodes]

I would not be too concerned about the oiled stock. You can strip that pretty easily (try MP7 gun cleaner). Most WWII K.98 slings are not valuable enough to get worked up about. It's irreversible damage like sanded stocks or rebluing that I try to stay away from.

Spanky, Have you priced a nice ORIGINAL K98k sling lately??? They are not cheap! I can easily expect to pay upwards of $100-$150 or more for a nice one.

[Jean-Loup]

No advanced helmet collector would put any product on the helmet chinstrap, because he knows the chinstarp will be fine without it. So why would a gun collector put a product on his rifle slings?
JL

[bodes]

No advanced helmet collector would put any product on the helmet chinstrap, because he knows the chinstarp will be fine without it. So why would a gun collector put a product on his rifle slings?
JL

I agree that if the chinstrap/sling is still in supple condition, it doesn't hurt to just leave be. Helmet liners are the same way. My only comment is a sling can be a little different situation. Where the sling goes through the band, it makes a pretty tight bend. If leather dries, it fatigue, it breaks. Happens alot on binocular cases. My point was merely minty slings are expensive. Collector goes out and invest in a $1500-$20K rifle he's not gonna put a cheap, worn out sling on it. He's gonna want a nice one and it's gonna cost. Just my 2 cents.

[Spanky]

I agree that if the chinstrap/sling is still in supple condition, it doesn't hurt to just leave be. Helmet liners are the same way. My only comment is a sling can be a little different situation. Where the sling goes through the band, it makes a pretty tight bend. If leather dries, it fatigue, it breaks. Happens alot on binocular cases. My point was merely minty slings are expensive. Collector goes out and invest in a $1500-$20K rifle he's not gonna put a cheap, worn out sling on it. He's gonna want a nice one and it's gonna cost. Just my 2 cents.

If an original sling is $100 then it's still only a fraction of the cost of a nice K.98 which can cost well over $1000 depending on condition and rarity. Sure the sling is not chump change but your not going to walk away from a collectable rifle becuase the sling has been oiled either. Most rifle collectors I know don't care if every rifle they collect has an original sling just like dagger collectors don't have to have a portapee and hangers on every dagger they collect.

[Roy Queen]

I have different standards as to how I collect. As far as WWII items go, I have two mismatched 98K rifles, and an East German reworked, and rebarreled P08. I know that they would not fetch as much money as an all matching piece, but as long as they are in good shape, proof marks intact, and there is decent riflings, I am happy. Recently, I picked up a M1916, and M40 German helmets, and both have repro liners, and have been repainted. Even though they are not in their original condition, they fill a gap until one day I can upgrade to a better example.

[Jean-Loup]

Helmet collectors also tend to limit chinstrap changes to a minimum; and apparently rifle collectors follow this rule much less for the slings. Has to be nice and new... I personaly consider it heresy to take off an original chinstrap or sling, whatever the condition. (but yes, I can understand putting a new one on if the original is missing)
JL