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**Gary Cain** · 01-19-2010, 03:36 PM

I will add my two bits to the mix. Recently there has been a softening of collectors opinions on refinishing firearms. As the old guard passes away I believe it will become far more commonplace to see these coming to market as the collectors values relax.

I call it the Barrett Jackson effect. Never in my imagination would I ever have believed that a restored car would bring more money at auction than a original condition vehicle that while not perfect was still in excellent condition. And yet it consistently happens to the point now that restored cars are the norm. Rarely do you see an all original original paint vehicle come up for sale.

Collectors with rare exception no longer bother to put in the time to research what it is they are interested in and instead will accept a restored car, firearm, etc. that they want because the effort to learn about the correct stuff is too difficult.

Cheers
Gary

**Alan Smith** · 01-19-2010, 03:39 PM

Spot on - Gary!

**Craig Gottlieb** · 01-19-2010, 04:02 PM

Gary: I agree. Also, there is the issue of attrition, which I discussed in my book. As the years go by, the population of pieces goes down (or does the population of higher-grade pieces), and as a result, restoration becomes more acceptable as collectors find it harder (or impossible) to find rare collector-grade artifacts. As an aside, the coin market has gone the opposite direction. Now that every nice coin found finds its way into a PCGS slab (thereby preserving it forever), rare coin populations don't go down like they used to (morgan and peace silver dollars used to grace the trays of slot machines in Vegas).

**Gary Cain** · 01-19-2010, 05:27 PM

Craig,

Highly collectible firearms are not something that suffer a great deal of attrition. They are normally well protected in fireproof safes with excellent security. The only time they are lost is in the event of a massive earthquake or serious firestorm. The problem with them is that in general the only way they come to market is when a collector dies and the collection is auctioned off. Otherwise the real high end stuff goes collection to collection. Just like the better militaria.

Gary

Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb View Post

Gary: I agree. Also, there is the issue of attrition, which I discussed in my book. As the years go by, the population of pieces goes down (or does the population of higher-grade pieces), and as a result, restoration becomes more acceptable as collectors find it harder (or impossible) to find rare collector-grade artifacts. As an aside, the coin market has gone the opposite direction. Now that every nice coin found finds its way into a PCGS slab (thereby preserving it forever), rare coin populations don't go down like they used to (morgan and peace silver dollars used to grace the trays of slot machines in Vegas).

**Craig Gottlieb** · 01-19-2010, 05:40 PM

Agreed. I did look at a collection in Galvaston last year that was under water for a few days, after the hurricane. It was a tragedy.

**sszza2** · 01-19-2010, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Gary Cain View Post

I will add my two bits to the mix. Recently there has been a softening of collectors opinions on refinishing firearms. As the old guard passes away I believe it will become far more commonplace to see these coming to market as the collectors values relax.

I call it the Barrett Jackson effect. Never in my imagination would I ever have believed that a restored car would bring more money at auction than a original condition vehicle that while not perfect was still in excellent condition. And yet it consistently happens to the point now that restored cars are the norm. Rarely do you see an all original original paint vehicle come up for sale.

Collectors with rare exception no longer bother to put in the time to research what it is they are interested in and instead will accept a restored car, firearm, etc. that they want because the effort to learn about the correct stuff is too difficult.

Cheers
Gary

Gary,

I am very familiar with the car market and don't believe cars and firearms are analogous as it relates to this subject. Cars unless stored in a time capsule begin to deteriorate the day they roll off the assembly line. So they are restored to reverse this deterioration and preserve the investment. Then of course they are also restored because owners like to run and drive them as a key part of the ownership experience. So great as they are, original survivor class cars do not command the same value as restored because restoration cost is inevitable and driving them is a recipe for disaster. None of this really applies to firearms. They are easily stabilized if in mint or worn condition and owners don’t feel the need to shoot them. As a person who loves and appreciates cars and arms I can say that shooting a rare pistol doesn’t feel much different than shooting a new one in the same caliber. But roaring through the gears in a ’66 425 horse C2 Corvette can only be duplicated in another C2.

Scott

**Gary Cain** · 01-19-2010, 09:21 PM

Hi Scott,

I will respectfully disagree with you on this point. I have multiple friends in the collectible auto field dealing specifically with AC Cobras and Ford GT's as well as the earlier Ferrari's, Mercs etc. And most of those high end cars are not driven save at very special events like the Monterey Vintage Races or the Goodwood Festival of Speed in the UK. I live 30 minutes from the National Automobile Collection (the old Harrahs collection) and have a 1952 Bentley myself, and provided you do normal maintenance (or pickle them) they will not deteriorate at all.

I think the two collecting fields are very similar its just that the car market has about a 10 to 15 year headstart. I predict (and you can quote me) that within the next 15 years refinished firearms will be far more accepted.
They will not command the prices of original finish firearms to be sure but they will no longer be nearly as derided as they are now.

I don't like the trend but I can recognise it when I see it.

Cheers
Gary

quote=sszza2;3771558]Gary,

I am very familiar with the car market and don't believe cars and firearms are analogous as it relates to this subject. Cars unless stored in a time capsule begin to deteriorate the day they roll off the assembly line. So they are restored to reverse this deterioration and preserve the investment. Then of course they are also restored because owners like to run and drive them as a key part of the ownership experience. So great as they are, original survivor class cars do not command the same value as restored because restoration cost is inevitable and driving them is a recipe for disaster. None of this really applies to firearms. They are easily stabilized if in mint or worn condition and owners don’t feel the need to shoot them. As a person who loves and appreciates cars and arms I can say that shooting a rare pistol doesn’t feel much different than shooting a new one in the same caliber. But roaring through the gears in a ’66 425 horse C2 Corvette can only be duplicated in another C2.

Scott[/quote]

**sszza2** · 01-20-2010, 10:50 AM

Gary,

Yes - sorry we'll just have to agree to disagree. I am basing my comments partially on a dinner conversation last year with the owner of the business that has done restoration work for GM and other museum systems. As to collectors driving them a visit to Bloomington or other major shows that have rallys as a component seem to contradict. Of course the super high dollar cars don't get involved but a large variety of low 6 figure cars sure do.

Scott

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