Craig Gottlieb

[Vinnie]

Again, where are all the bad items, Mark, that I have sold? Where are all the burned customers? This silly thread continues but the silence is deafening, Mark. Vinnie was happy with his one purchase, before becoming polluted, I guess, by the worn-out stories you enjoy trafficking.

Craig,

Wow, to be honest I never expected to hear that I had been polluted.

We had a great relationship for the first few months and then things started to go downhill fast.

I can cite many things that 'polluted' me, but they have nothing to do with Mark or any other person.

We can start with the Ruggenburg Damascus degen that you were telling people I had bought at the MAX before I had even seen it, or the Auxiliary Cruiser Badge that you had to have but would only pay peanuts for.

Here are two of my favorites:

The morning that you, my father and I were having breakfast at the SOS, you asked me if I had made any purchases, I had replied that I had my eye on a few things.

You then whipped out a Red Cross Hewer knot and showed it to me. You then gleefully related that the knot was behind a dealers table and that when you expressed interest in it, were informed it was on hold for a kid that was buying it. But that wasnt good enough and you had to have it, and paid $20 more than I was.

You simply had to have it and wouldnt accept that it was on hold for some kid.

Guess what, I was that kid. The knot was on hold for me and the dealer was an acqaintance from Virginia.

I told you that I was that kid, and that the knot was on hold for me.

Your comment will ring in my ears forever:

"If I wasn't too greedy, I would sell it back to you".

Here is one more, it stuck a big nerve on a personal note, and I will never forget it.

Charlotte MAX Show, I was walking with a cane. I needed a hip replacement badly, but it couldn't be done yet. I had to leave early and was walking up the center aisle to the door. You were walking towards me and asked me if I was limping. I replied yes and that I had hip problems and needed surgery. Your reply, and I quote "Well, sucks to be you" and with that you kept on walking.

Shall I go on and bring up more of the past?

[FW 200]

Maybe we could start a thread about dealers who we never hear complaints about, and read about them?

[FW 200]

Vinney, I hope you had a few choice words for dealer who sold the knot out from under you as well. He should be discussed too. IMO, the knot was yours, period.

[Vinnie]

I did have words with him as well. That was the last we had any business and it ruined a relationship.

[sszza2]

Vinnie,

What you describe is shameful and despicable behavior. Unfortunately the greed factor in collecting is so intense for some that overlooking such behavior for a bauble is SOP. I would enjoy hearing more information and would hope others would too. Even if not illegal behavior it helps paint a character picture that IMO other collectors would benefit from.

[FW 200]

Anyone selling their reputation for twenty bucks takes greed to a whole new level, unless their reputation isn't worth twenty bucks, in which case-->it's a smart move.

[kingtiger]

The REAL top ten reason Craig

10. Lies to clients
9. Changes asking prices contingent on who is asking
8. Caught altering daggers w/ photographic evidence
7. Refusal to refund money under Guarantee
8. Telling consignors their pieces sold for less in order to pocket more money.
7. Telling clients that their cash is insured under CIA when put in the mail
6. Leg humps cash cows
5. Consistant name thrower and back stabber
4. Keeps company with other liars and dealers of spurious product
3. Tries passing his 1000.00 wine bill off on the table
2. Asking known authorities to alter their opinions so he can save face
1. Trying to alter market using reproductions to enforce the flawed process of manufacture of Honor Rings

[FW 200]

I did have words with him as well. That was the last we had any business and it ruined a relationship.

Relationships like that are worthless, and you saved the amount you would have given him for the knot. Besides, maybe he got clipped-->he probably could have gotten a hundred bucks for his reputation on e-stand!

[kingtiger]

What class on the way out.....

Well Craig, I think that about wraps it up. What do you think? ARE you disabled?

At least end it with some degree of class...like Rommel did.

Mark

[sszza2]

Anyone selling their reputation for twenty bucks takes greed to a whole new level, unless their reputation isn't worth twenty bucks, in which case-->it's a smart move.

Anyone selling their reputation for any price is a moral imbecile.

The problem with this hobby and business is that it has operated in a wild west fashion throughout its existance. Its not as if there are professional orgs, guidelines, certifications, or warranty programs to speak of. As we have seen on numerous occassions the industry is ethically challenged and not interested in policing itself or even professionalizing. Major show management can't even take steps to deny entry to high profile felons convicted of crimes in the industry. Apparently, too many skeletons and thus too much to lose or risk losing.

[Fritziii]

Craig,

Wow, to be honest I never expected to hear that I had been polluted.

We had a great relationship for the first few months and then things started to go downhill fast.

I can cite many things that 'polluted' me, but they have nothing to do with Mark or any other person.

We can start with the Ruggenburg Damascus degen that you were telling people I had bought at the MAX before I had even seen it, or the Auxiliary Cruiser Badge that you had to have but would only pay peanuts for.

Here are two of my favorites:

The morning that you, my father and I were having breakfast at the SOS, you asked me if I had made any purchases, I had replied that I had my eye on a few things.

You then whipped out a Red Cross Hewer knot and showed it to me. You then gleefully related that the knot was behind a dealers table and that when you expressed interest in it, were informed it was on hold for a kid that was buying it. But that wasnt good enough and you had to have it, and paid $20 more than I was.

You simply had to have it and wouldnt accept that it was on hold for some kid.

Guess what, I was that kid. The knot was on hold for me and the dealer was an acqaintance from Virginia.

I told you that I was that kid, and that the knot was on hold for me.

Your comment will ring in my ears forever:

"If I wasn't too greedy, I would sell it back to you".

Here is one more, it stuck a big nerve on a personal note, and I will never forget it.

Charlotte MAX Show, I was walking with a cane. I needed a hip replacement badly, but it couldn't be done yet. I had to leave early and was walking up the center aisle to the door. You were walking towards me and asked me if I was limping. I replied yes and that I had hip problems and needed surgery. Your reply, and I quote "Well, sucks to be you" and with that you kept on walking.

Shall I go on and bring up more of the past?

That last story is utterly sick, how could a so called FRIEND say something like that, what a arrrogant person, whew, not that the other part of your story isn't bad either. Vinnie I can understand fully why you have a bad taste.

Fritz

[Willi Z.]

"as ye sow, so shall ye reap".

Good advice. This thread was started in the firearms section and started as a discussion on firearms. Now it has gone down that same insulting, vendetta-driven, threatening, puffy chest, juvenile, moral crusading path NUMEROUS other threads have gone down. And by the same people. We are all tired of this nonsense and it violates many forum rules. These rules, when enforced, are why many are on this forum.

It doesn't matter who is right or wrong. The entire collecting community knows the story. We have heard it time and time again. We know the truth. Some of what (which appears to be rather private) was shared here, and in the manner it was, is disgraceful. Using the forum, again, for the platform for this crap will not be tolerated.

Some here have been warned before, and some have been infracted or suspended. More to follow.....stay tuned and pack your bags.

Some of the posted rules:

All forum members should consider themselves as invited guests and participate accordingly.<O></O>

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[Willi Z.]

BTW, this is just one of the PMs I have already received:

Now follow through with what you stated in your post. That has always been the problem with the moderators on this site. Allowing the inmates to run the assylum............ time and again.

The silent majority, the meat and potatoes of this forum, all feel the same way.

Update; 2 were suspended, 4 were infracted, and 3 were warned. No need to start another thread and inquire as to "what happened and why". It should be obvious....
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