Why early MP 40 bolt handles were not changed

[Mikedenmark]

Hi.
Being new here, I like to add a piece of information related to a thread here somewhere I cannot relocate.

People were discussing why some MP40, with the early type (MP38) bolt handle, without the sideway safety, never became updated.

I have seen such a MP40 here in DK, with a documented place of origin, namely the Kriegsmarine in Copenhagen.
Found there in 1945, and incorporated in a collection at that time.

I suggest, that while the german army issued an order for the updating, the navy may never have done this.
Or, IMO less likely, being on board ships who rarely, or never, returned to their main harbours Kiel and Wilhelmshafen, they simply never came back to an armourer for the update. Some german ships stayed in danish or norwegian waters for the duration of the war.

I hold the 1st suggestion for the correct one.

What I can wonder about, is why the navy MP40 did not have the eagle over M property mark of the navy.
Has anyone seen a navy marked MP40 ? or a MG34 with navy property marking?


As odd notes can be mentioned, that WWI era WW marked navy lugers 06 AND the fairly rare navy WW marked ari lugers was found in german stores in Copenhagen as well.

In the fifties, the WW marked artillery lugers were not uncommon in Copenhagen.
Since then, a total ban on these guns, and arms dealers buying up such rarities has made them extinct.

Bottom line: The kriegsmarine in Copenhagen had a lot of weird old WWI stuff in the stores in 1945.

[Schmeisserfan]

hey,

what I can tell that in 1943 , all mp38 and mp40 had to be changed to the new mp40 bolt and a safety opening in the receiver had to done .

Its the same with my mp38 with early bolt and without safety opening . I can ´t explain for 100% why the modifications stood away .

A piece from the home front, almost forgotten, not in combat ? Or a Kriegsmarine Version on a boat far away from the amourer ?

Yes, I have seen one mp40 from a dealer , marked with a "nordsee number" on the non-ripped magazine holder . But IMO this was done post-war

The mp40 mystery persists and I love that

[Heinz Steinkopf]

Yes, I have seen one mp40 from a dealer , marked with a "nordsee number" on the non-ripped magazine holder . But IMO this was done post-war

Was it a re-blued 27/40 marked gun with re-numbered trigger guard? I guess I know what you are talking about

[Mikedenmark]

I would expect a navy property eagle on a weapon marked with a Nordsee, or an Ostsee number.

And I would expect the Nordsee number to be on a major weapon part, rather than on a smaller part. Like either the pistol grip part, or the main housing.

a "27" marked MP40 could probably have a Nordsee number, I cannot recall if there was a date, where the N and O numbers were no longer applied.

I think, I still have the order for the modification in the army here somewhere. Complete with drawings and dimensions.

Sooner or later someone will go to the Bundesarchiv and dig out the explanation.

[Skookum]

The Kriegsmarine ceased property marking weapons in mid 1940.

[Heinz Steinkopf]

The Kriegsmarine ceased property marking weapons in mid 1940.

Could you please give some reference.
If it is so, there should be no MP40's with letter manufacturer code marked with See numbers.

[jotuntroll]

I have seen 2 MP38-40 and 2 MP-40 here in Norway all ww2 survivirs vith the claw handle. Why the MP-40`s had claw`s is unknown.
They are rare but they do exist and the reason for not converted I do not know.

[Mikedenmark]

The introduction of the safety handle took place after the production of the plate 1940 started. So the early production did not start out with the extra safety.

Exactly when the navy stopped using property mark is not definite. Even when they changed their Navy waffenamt structure in 1944, they retained the eagle over M in the acceptance markings. So acceptance and property marking were combined in one.

They usually sport a roman and a latin number, like III/2. This indicate which branch of the Navy waffenamts that applied the markings. And hence, which type of equipment it was...Like the 38 cm cannons for the battleships. Not that one is in doubt when looking at such a barrel.

These changes were described after the war, in a small book by the former chief of the Navy waffenamts.
He only wanted to describe the changed organisation, not to help those then unknown "collectors"