That holster? P08 or P38

[Doktor]

Help please, from any weapons that holster? P08 or P38

[Gene]

P38 hardshell

[leondes]

With a missing lift strap.

Regards, Leon

[Craig W.C. Brown]

Never had a pullup strap. Seems cut too low in front for a P38 hardshell. P39(t) variant w/o strap?

[Doktor]

Спасибо.

Thank you.

[leondes]

HI Craig,

You could be correct but I see a piece of leather on the underside of the flap where the strap is normally stitched (see the 4th picture). In the first picture, you can also just barely see stitches on the outside of the holster above the closure strap. Both of those are evidence of a missing pullup strap.

I see no evidence of a P.39(t) stamp on the inside of the flap. The maker, cxb, is a well known P.38 holster maker. I have never seen a cxb P.39(t) holster.

The front body cut looks right to me. Compare to pictures of this holster... http://lmd-militaria.com/page0226.htm

I certainly haven't seen it all and I haven't seen another cxb40 holster that I recall but without further evidence, like a shim stitched into the spare mag pouch or remnants of the P.39(t) stamp, I still think it is a P.38 holster.

Regards, Leon

[Matt Weber]

Leon,

It's not marked P38 on reverse, so it could be a P39(t) holster. However it could be a P38 holster as well? I agree with you that the lift strap has been pulled off.

Matt

[Mikedenmark]

If it is a P39(t) holster, you will see a slim extra piece of leather inside the magazine pouch. Sewn on inside the pouch, to the back of the holster. The P39 magazine being slimmer from back to front, than the P38 clip.

It is difficult, often impossible, to insert a magazine for a P38 in a good condition P39(t) holster.

The P39(t) marking may not be present inside the lid, but the leather strap will always make id easy.

In my opinion, the lack of P38 marking on the back could indicate a P39 holster. So does the date. P38 holsters from 1940 are, in my experience, rarely seen.

Not so for the P39´s
These were made for supplies of the P39 to Finland during the finno russian war in 1940.
Both the pistol and the holsters are not uncommon in Finland.
Some were sold during large surplus sales in the early 1980ies.
1984 to name one year.

[leondes]

Hi Matt,

As I'm sure you know, a lot of 1940 P.38 holsters do not have the "P.38" stamped on the back.

Matt & Mike,

Have you ever seen another cxb made P.39(t) holster? I haven't but they made quite a number of P.38 holsters.

Mike,

I did examine a P.39(t) holster once (ink stamped on the underside of the flap) that did not have the shim in the spare mag pouch. Certainly most have it and that is a good way to tell but, apparently, the one I saw was simply made with a slimmer spare mag pouch. I wish now I had bought the one I saw but didn't consider it a rarity at the time. 1940 holsters are scarce but I have seen several over the years. I have 3 in my collection.

It could be for either pistol but without more evidence, I still lean toward it being made for a P.38.

Just my opinion.

Regards, Leon

[Mikedenmark]

Well, I have seen 1-3 P39 holsters without the extra piece of leather, so you are right, they exist. But if present, it is a P39 holster.
The P39(t) holsters made for Finland are often marked budichowski Wien 1940 and another austrian maker I cannot recall presently. Oddly enough, they bear full company name. This could indicate procurement outside normal army channels = state help for Finland.
But coded P39(t) holsters do exist as well. I think, I have seen one marked 1941.

[Mikedenmark]

Oups...
On the P38 marking on the back.
This was only made after the P38 came into general use.
The P08 holster and the P38 holster were almost interchangeable, so there must have been an order issued, that both P08 and P38 holsters should be marked on the back.
The P08 holster datings can give a good indication on when this happened.
Sometime around 1940.

[Matt Weber]

[quote=Mikedenmark;3714651]If it is a P39(t) holster, you will see a slim extra piece of leather inside the magazine pouch. Sewn on inside the pouch, to the back of the holster. The P39 magazine being slimmer from back to front, than the P38 clip.

It is difficult, often impossible, to insert a magazine for a P38 in a good condition P39(t) holster.

Mike,

Not all P39t holsters will have the leather insert inside the pouch. Never say never!

Leon,

Yes, I know I have seen other P38 holsters that are not marked P38 on reverse. I was just making an observation that it "could" be a P39t holster, giving there are no markings indicating P38.

So, next would be wear markings. I don't see the typical wear markings inside this holster to indicate a P38 was in it. Usually you would see a heavy wear mark from the lanyard ring, the safety lever, and also from the magazine lip. On the reverse you usually see the square outline from the P38 slide. I don't see any of these features on this holster. Which leans me to believe this is probably a P39t holster.
I can't recall off the top of my head if I've seen a "cxb" P39t holster before, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. I have however seen several P39t holsters that are not ink stamped or the ink stamp has worn off. Also, I have seen several P39t holsters without the extra leather piece in the magazine pouch. Also, there are several P38 holster makers who also made the P39t holsters: Joseph Moll is one example off the top of my head.

Again having no markings it's open to interpretation.

Matt