Thoughts on correct sniper rifle builds ?

[kingbird6]

Hello, any of you guys have an opinion regarding some of the sniper rifles I have seen for sale where an ORIGINAL MATCHING unrestored K98 has had an original period, version correct , scope and mount professionally attached to the rifle ?

I have seen some honest descriptions on some darn good pieces (SSR's LSR's, Claw mounts) and sellers getting upwards of 3-4K+ for them. I consider myself a serious collector willing to pay top dollar and although I'd prefer to have an authentic captured unmolested K98 sniper, I'm thinking a good second choice is a historically correct gun married to a historically correct set of optiks and base. I'm not talking about a nice K98 that's had a repro or incorrect scope attached by a local gunsmith...

[robcox1]

I don't see the difference between what you describe and a repro. It either is an original sniper rifle, or it isn't.

[Gimpy117]

honestly i wouldn't mess with a matching rifle. that gun has survived 60+ years untouched so i think i would keep it the same. personally i would do that with a mutt rifle...much like the one i have.

[Willi Z.]

I don't see the difference between what you describe and a repro. It either is an original sniper rifle, or it isn't.

I agree.

[kingbird6]

Well, case in point here: this isn't a $2,500 rifle without this scope conversion but no doubt it's a nice setup indicative of an early period sniper/scope...no doubt this auction will end at closer to 3K or better so maybe I'm in the minority preferring a "real rifle". Sounds like you guys wouln't touch this one.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=145322209

[phild]

Well, case in point here: this isn't a $2,500 rifle without this scope conversion but no doubt it's a nice setup indicative of an early period sniper/scope...no doubt this auction will end at closer to 3K or better so maybe I'm in the minority preferring a "real rifle". Sounds like you guys wouln't touch this one.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=145322209

That was a really nice and collectable rifle even with the M/M bolt. There has been ove the past 25 years or so a knee jerk reaction against bolt mismatch rifle as somehow not being collector worthy....this is certainly changing and will change much more in the out years.

The work done on this rifle looks top quality, however it is forever changed from it's original and historical configuration...it can not be reversed.

I agree with the others that this is basically a reproduction. It is same type of thing as taking a German Officers tunic that is missing the breast eagle only and removing all of the other insigina and buttons and "restoring" to a Generals tunic using orignal Generals insignia.....it is still not a WWII General's tunic and it is now a ruined German officers tunic.

[kingbird6]

Thanks for the inputs. I totally agree with them. I guess I could be satisfied with such a "reproduction" assuming it conformed to historical accuracy and assuming the real thing only became available once in a blue moon to where the chances of obtaining the real thing were slim to none. I have yet to see a real correct confirmed sniper rifle for sale (other than the occasional ZF41 and if one did come up for sale, I'd have no problem forking out 8K+ for it. Since that isn't likely, i'll be content with one like the link... especially since it still has collectible value and therefore not likely to lose your investment.

[phild]

Thanks for the inputs. I totally agree with them. I guess I could be satisfied with such a "reproduction" assuming it conformed to historical accuracy and assuming the real thing only became available once in a blue moon to where the chances of obtaining the real thing were slim to none. I have yet to see a real correct confirmed sniper rifle for sale (other than the occasional ZF41 and if one did come up for sale, I'd have no problem forking out 8K+ for it. Since that isn't likely, i'll be content with one like the link... especially since it still has collectible value and therefore not likely to lose your investment.

I see your point. My only problem is the destruction of good original items in order to make a filler example. I think that ANY original finish WWII firearm with only one or two M/M period parts is still an inportant and collector worthy item. I guess it gets subjective from there.

[afrikasandman]

Well I am with the others here and do not support messing with a rifle to convert it. I have only had the opportunity to handle 1 k98 sniper rifle and it was a wonderful item. Taken by the vet who shot the SS sniper. took the snipers helmet and rifle and then had his buddies take pictures of him with the rifle and the helmet. It was an amazing combo that the vet brought to a guy I know and told him 5k for the rifle, helmet and pics... deal of a life time, hell the helmet alone was worth more than that, but the rifle was really awesome to hold! Never seen another one since. But don't kill a standard mauser to use as a filler, not right. Matt

[kingbird6]

Damn that sounds like a dream come true story for a collector ! And yes, to clarify, I wouldn't EVER monkey up ANY rifle to make an example, but I did buy one that someone else did fiddle with.... That's probably why the Mitchell's Mauser LSR builds don't seem to move on gunbroker. Maybe I was wrong by supporting the purchase of sucha conversion and overpaying in the process, but I did buy a nice BYF 44 all matching gun that had been professionally converted (link below). I personally would have absolutely left this gun untouched but what's done is done and maybe I can at least find a real period scope and rail for it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=144238634

[Mike Steves]

The byf44 rifle was never offered in that configuration, so finding an original rail and scope assy for it is impossible. Add to that the stock is the wrong configuration for a byf44 in that serial range, has a fake eagle stamped on it, and incorrect unnumbered bands, what you have is a train wreck.

That base rifle is worth about $400, the repro scope and mount can be had for $500, and the work to install it is about $300. So, for $4k plus you got $1200 worth of rifle. You will never be able to sell that rifle and recoup your cost in the next 10 years- after that you might be ok if you sell it to someone who doesn't know snipers well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ZF39-Sniper-Scop...item2302ad0c4e

I hate to be so brutally honest, but someone needs to tell you the truth.

Wanted to clarify- the ad leads you to believe that was an all matching rifle. It isn't- that rifle would have had numbered bands and stock assy in standard trim. That seller is known for misleading ads such as this one.

[kingbird6]

Well hell..There is some truth to a sucker being born every minute. The bids were up to about $3,800 before I even touched the thing so there's more where I came from. Guess I'll have to keep it as shooter rather than a collector. So much for trying to add quality to my collection but that's what I get for not doing my homework and being impulsive. Thanks for the inputs.

[Mike Steves]

If it were me, I'd send it back- he didn't advertise it properly if you ask me. Why should you take a bath because of a misleading ad? He clearly wanted people to think it was all matching. It only propagates the thievery. You should have a 3 day inspection on it.

[kingbird6]

Interesting discussion with him last night..he makes no apologies for anything. His ad did say stock and barrel band not matching and stated that he would have let the rifle go for $1,500 if thats where the auction ended because he needed $...so my fault for not knowing a damn thing about what I was buying. I'd be ok with it IF the BYF had the correct pieces AND it was indicative of a late war sniper like an LSR OR it had an original scope but as it is I'm just pissed at myself for being an impulsive idot. Thanks for the heads up though.

[kingtiger]

Maybe the closest bidders to you would take it? If you could e-mail them somehow....

Mark