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    Bullet hole in helmet

    Hello
    I got a helmet from the civil wars in Yougoslavia; and it has a bullet hole in it that is supposed to be from the war. The hole seems to have been made by a 45 caliber bullet, or something very similar.
    I have my doubts that the hole is original, and here is my question. Are there any weapons either than pistols that fire 45 cal, or very similar cal bullets and that were likely to have been used in Yougo?
    The chances of a person being killed in combat by a pistol shoot are very small, even thow, in civil wars, everything is possible.
    JL

    #2
    I'm not sure if it applies to the conflict you mention, but the Us Thompson sub-machine gun fired .45 ammo. It was used extensively by US troops in WWII

    Comment


      #3
      Hi JL, the round, if .45 Auto, could have come from a Thompson or M3 "Grease Gun". Anything is possible, as that in that war, many WW2 era weapons were used.
      I agree it is very hard to tell if the bullet hole was put there in combat or just done to make a more dramatic or more saleable souvenir.
      Cheers, Ade.

      Comment


        #4
        Yes guys, I know the tompson fires 45, but even thow there were probably a few of them in Yougo, they really werent the most widespread weapons.
        There actually what seems to be blood inside this helmet; but all this can be faked so easelly to sell the helmet to tourists... I will try to get one with a schrapnell hole: much harder to fake!
        JL

        Comment


          #5
          Thompson or M3 Grease gun are both likely sources. Also remember that the M3 Grease gun could also fire 9mm!

          One question though Jean. How can you tell for sure that it is a .45 caliber hole in this helmet?

          Matt
          Last edited by Matt Weber; 12-06-2003, 08:48 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            Assumining that full metal jacket ammunition is used, and the steel of a helmet is penetrated, it should be fairly easy to tell if the hole was made by 9mm or .45acp. I state this based on the number of vehicle bodies I have helped penetrate with both calibers during tactical training in the past.
            Johnnie

            Originally posted by Matt Weber
            Thompson or M3 Grease gun are both likely sources. Also remember that the M3 Greas gun could also fire 9mm!

            One question though Jean. How can you tell for sure that it is a .45 caliber hole in this helmet?

            Matt

            Comment


              #7
              Hey Matt
              I cant tell "for sure" it is 45, thats why I said 45 or very similar. I have a bit of experience with shoot helmets; and I can tell by the size of the hole that this is 45 or very close just by looking at it. Mesuring it confirmed my thought. If I could send you a pic of the helmet, you would see, it is very easy to tell. The difference Between 9mm and 45 is very visible.
              Take a look at this other helmet: http://www.tridentmilitary.com/new-photos11/cahmt5b.jpg The hole seems to have been made by something about 5 to 7 mm. On my helmet, at first glance, you can tell the hole is 'huge' in comparison.
              JL

              Comment


                #8
                Our family friend just returned from the former Yugoslavia and his job was to collect all weapons for destruction, to prevent locals and governments from selling such items to fund their new governments. We specifically spoke of Thompsons, he had seen collected dozens of them, along with endless K98s and their variations, and numerous mp40s. I have a pic somewhere I will try to post.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Jonnie, and Jean,

                  Don't jump on me for asking!? I never mentioned 9mm as a possibility. I simply stated that the M3 was capable of firing 9mm

                  I was mearly asking how you were able to confirm that the hole was done by a .45ACP. I have training in this area, and I know that you just can't look at the hole and say, "yep that was done by a .45!" Just guessing by size this could have been done by a .44, a .50, 9mm or 40S&W.

                  After you find out what caliber did this, you then have to determine what range. If this was done by a pistol (ie, 1911a1), then the range would be very close. If so, the helmut would not only have a hole, but would also have a large dent as well!

                  If this was done by a pistol, then it probably was not the fatal blow.
                  In the Pacific, all US Marines in WWII never passed a Japanese soldier that was on the ground without putting a round in his head first. This was due to the fact that the Japanese would often play "possum".

                  The wearer of your helmut probably got the same treatment.
                  Or it was simply done by someone to try and sell it and make it worth more!
                  Judging from the pics, I would say option 2.

                  Matt

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Matt, sorry, I didnt mean to jump on you.
                    The helmet pictures in not the one that I was talking about. I dont know how it is possible for you to judge from that picture if the hole is combat made or not.
                    The hole on my helmet is the size of the bullet ( well,a bit smaler) , you can tell by the way the hole looks (its not like on the helmet pictured) . I dont realy know how to explain it.. Yes, it could also be .44 of course; but I garantee it is not 9mm, and am almsot certain it is not .50.
                    About knowing the range and if it is a pistole shot or not; I think we are getting into a very difficult subject. The reaction of the helmet will depend on the shape of the bullet, the type of helmet, the place it hits the helmet, the angle, the speed... I would have to do some test firing on several yougo helmets I think!
                    JL

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I bought this FJ helmet here locally from a US vet's grandson along w/ another helmet. It has a pretty deep, largish symmetrical dent in one side that looks to me like a .45 hit. Its hard to see in the pics, but much more dramatic in person. There are what look to be blood spatters in the liner, so perhaps this guy was cut down w/ a Thompson
                      Last edited by Luftm40; 05-21-2004, 06:55 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Andy may have seen my para helmet before, but I am including a picture of it for the benefit of those who have not. The bullet hole made a clean break and there is little, if any, denting around the hole. Judging from the fact that there was little denting around the hole, it appears that it was made by a relatively high velocity round, perhaps 7.62mm/30.06 or other similar caliber? The hole does seem a little big for 7.62, but who knows.
                        Last edited by WalterB; 12-07-2003, 09:47 AM.
                        When you go home
                        Tell them for us and say
                        For your tomorrow
                        We gave our today

                        --Inscription in the 5th Marine Division cemetery,
                        Iwo Jima 1945

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Close-up of bullet hole. There was no exit hole.
                          Last edited by WalterB; 12-07-2003, 09:46 AM.
                          When you go home
                          Tell them for us and say
                          For your tomorrow
                          We gave our today

                          --Inscription in the 5th Marine Division cemetery,
                          Iwo Jima 1945

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The following two pictures show another FJ helmet with a similar high velocity impact from a bullet. I am not sure whose helmet this is and I apologize beforehand for not giving the owner his proper due. The entry hole in this case appears to be more consistent with a 7.62mm caliber and, of course, the exit hole (see next picture) does show a larger exit hole.
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by WalterB; 12-07-2003, 09:50 AM.
                            When you go home
                            Tell them for us and say
                            For your tomorrow
                            We gave our today

                            --Inscription in the 5th Marine Division cemetery,
                            Iwo Jima 1945

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Other side of the helmet
                              Attached Files
                              When you go home
                              Tell them for us and say
                              For your tomorrow
                              We gave our today

                              --Inscription in the 5th Marine Division cemetery,
                              Iwo Jima 1945

                              Comment

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