M1 Garand lockbar sight questions

[Paul G]

Hello everyone,
I have an M1 Garand that I would like to put back into WW2 configuration. The rifle is a Springfield made in October 1943. I have read / heard that the rear sight should be a lock bar type sight. I have been told mine is a post war sight. I have compared mine with a late 1944 Springfield Garand that has the lockbar sight. From what I have read Late 1944 got the type 3 sight. Should mine have a type 2 rear sight? Also everything about my sight and the type 3 sight look identical except the 2 round adjusting knobs with shaft and lock bar. Is that all I would need to change to make it WW2 correct? And lastly, where can I get the proper WW2 rear sight setup? Thanks for your help

PG-

[Hande Hoche]

If your rifle is in the 1 million to 2.7 million serial number range it originally had a Type 2 lockbar sight. The only difference between the Type 2 and Type 3 is the shape of the lockbar, rounded vs. squared.



What you need are the knobs, pinion, lockbar, nut, and spring. You can use your current sight base, cover, and aperature. You can buy the parts you need as an assembly. Type 3 assemblies are easier to find

http://www.ammogarand.com/m1-garand-...-assembl1.html
http://www.m1garandrifle.com/Collectorspage.htm
https://www.dupagetrading.com/?_id=64

There are usually some for sale on ebay and Gunbroker http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=123908704

Be aware that reproduction lockbar sights have come out recently.

[bigschuss]

Hi Paul, the type 3 sight came into use after serial # 4.2 million. If yours is October 1943 then it's probably around a 2 million? If so, yes, a Type II lock bar site would be appropriate. To be really technical, you'll want to find a long pinion sight.

The lock bar sights look basically the same as your post war sight with the exception, of course, of that locking bar. But they are not the same. To make your Garand correct you're going to have to spend some cash to find yourself a true WWII era lock bar sight. The text on the windage and elevation knob sight covers is different for Type II lock bars. Also you'll find the knobs with knurled rims or checkered rims and open arrows or closed arrows. Some are apropriate for your rifle and some are not. This is all very geeky and technical.

If I were you, I'd look around for a complete lock bar sight assembly. This guy always has nice Garand parts. I've used him many times.

http://www.m1garandrifle.com/

I see that he actually has one for sale now...

WWII Lock bar sight assembly complete with base, cover, aperture, elevation cap, long-pinion, screw, windage knob, spring, washer, and type III lockbar ( square ends ). The Complete WWII rear sight assembly These have been hard to locate. Condition is very good original finish. 145.00

It has a Type III lock bar with square ends. Somebody else might know for sure, but I think you might need a Type II lock bar with rounded corners.

Good luck. If you are going to restore this to all WWII specs, you've got a fun (and expensive) journey ahead of you. The stock will probably be your most difficult and expensive thing to find.

Best,
Blair

edit....Hande Hoche beat me to it. Nice pic and spot on!

[geopop71]

M1 Garand

You may not like this reply, but it is only an opinion. I also have a 1943 SA M1. The first thing I wanted to do was, make it into a "correct" M1 for that time period. Right off the bat, a problem, The barrel is marked SA 4-45, it was brand new at the time of rebuild at SA. It has a T&E and MW of just two. Then, I decided that the rifle with all the work and looking for part's, would be "correct"
only in MY mind. It would still be an early fifties SA rebuild. What's the point?
Finding an all correct M1 would be much more satisfying, allthough most impossible, and very expensive. It's not the same as an all matcher K98! They numbered their rifles for some insane reason, I guess the Germans were thinking of the future, after losing the war, the K98 would be a very collectable
item. Any way, this is just my opinion and experience! Every single M1 is suspect to being rebuilt, and very hard to proove. So what's the point? You will still know it is not really correct.
geopop

[Paul G]

Thanks for the input guys(Hande Hoche, bigschuss, and geopop). You guys are awesome I understand its going to be expensive if I want to get it back to WW2 configuration. What I have is a SA Garand that was made in October 43 with its original barrel that is 10-43 dated as well. I have been told its the original barrel, but who really knows?? But at least its a correct barrel for the rifle. The more I learn about these Garands, the more I will know what I have. The local Garand "expert" looked it over and gauged the barrel for me. It spec. at a 2/3 on the barrel end and around a 3/4 on the receiver end. He then started talking fast and I couldn't keep up, because frankly I didn't know what the heck he was talking about! He was pointing out some of the post war things about the rifle. What I remember was the rear sight, op rod, and gas tube? The stock has also been refinished and no marks left at all. I know it will never be back to original, but thought it would be fun to at least put it back to correct configuration. As I picked it up very cheap, I think it may be worthwhile. Who knows??

PG-

[sneakerd]

Just keep in mind that yes, you have the basis for building a "correct" rifle. Most of the parts can be found easy enough on GB on yes even on ebay. The difficulty is in the stock. It is very, very hard to find a legit, correctly cartouched and decent stock set. I say set because once you find the stock, you'll gave to search long and hard for the right wood that matches in color and finish. A good and arguably correct (not humped) stock with SA/GAW and Ord wheel can run you around $500. Unless you get lucky.

[bigschuss]

Paul, it's quite fun to restore a WWII Garand. Geopop makes good points, and they are hard to refute. He asked the question what's the point? Just as you said, fun and worth the while.

Sure, it will still always be a rebuild. But as a collector and historian, you'll know that the rifle you restored to correct for the receiver is as about as original as you can get without having to spend 3K.

Take your time. The parts for your rifle will be relatively easy to find....gun shows, Ebay, and other web sites wil have all of the parts. The trick will be to find parts that match the finish of your receiver so your final product looks decent.

You'll probably end up spending $600 to $700 on parts. Sell your old parts on Ebay for around $250, depending on what you have, and you'll have a total of $500 into the rifle. And then as sneakered said, finding a stock will be the last major thing.

Get yourself a book or two as well. They are very helpful. I use this one:

M1 GARAND 1936 TO 1957, 4TH EDITION, REVISED & EXPANDED.
by Joe Poyer and Craig Riesch.

Best,
Blair

[geopop71]

M1 Garand

One of the thing's that suprized me about early original M1's was the finish. There was a relative in my family that mailed home a SA 1941 M1. I was about 12 when it arrived in an ammo crate full of Japanese trophies. It was handed down to his son in law and he still has it. I had it in my hand's again several years ago and it is like new and never touched! It has the rounded stock ferrules and a black smooth finish, almost like raw steel. I forget whether
it was a five or six digit ser #. But it was dated 41. The cousin who now has it has fired it many times. It is 100% correct and is the only one I have ever actually been near. The relative who sent it back was a Sea Bee and was wounded in the Pacific. The finish is the hardest thing to get. There must be a dozen shades of Parkerizing. Mine is a grey green, like the early 50's rebuild's.
You are lucky to have a matching barrel and receiver for a start.
good luck geopop

[Hande Hoche]

The difficulty is in the stock. It is very, very hard to find a legit, correctly cartouched and decent stock set. I say set because once you find the stock, you'll gave to search long and hard for the right wood that matches in color and finish. A good and arguably correct (not humped) stock with SA/GAW and Ord wheel can run you around $500. Unless you get lucky.

Looking for an authentic WWII M1 Rifle stock is as risky as looking for an all-matching Kar98k. Right now on ebay, a lot of cartouche stamps that allow people to stamp fake, er excuse me, reproduction acceptance marks on stocks for fun and profit are being sold. I have seen stocks with fake markings sold on ebay for hundreds of dollars. Just as with Kar98k's, if you don't do your homework it is very easy to get ripped off. But it is hard to do your homework, because reliable information is hard to find. Leave the stock as the last thing to "correct", after you have gained some knowledge. As a beginner, the first thing to do is get some books and start learning the ropes.

I recommend the following books:

The M1 Garand: World War II and The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide http://www.scott-duff.com/DuffBooks.htm#m1Garand

Collecting the M1 Garand II by JC Harrison https://estore.odcmp.com/store/catal...4=&note5=&max= Has errors in it, but still a handy guide for identifying parts