I recently purachased an all-matching numbers gun (this is NOT a Mitchell's gun) but I'm a bit confused on one issue. According to "Backbone of the Wehrmacht, The German K98k Rifle, 1934 -1945" the 1939 Mauser Werke was produced only with a laminated stock. However, this stock is walnut, with what I believe to be correct stamps on the right side (bolt side) of the stock. There are 3 Nazi style eagles with "26" below 2 of them and the letter H below the first eagle (closest to the stock disk). It is stamped with the appropriate serial number (on the bottom) between the grip and the butt plate but is not stamped inside the handguard or forend (barrel groove). The book also states that in 1938 most stocks on the Mauser Werke 98s were walnut with some being laminated. This makes me believe my particular gun was fitted to a leftover supply of walnut. Is this possible or is this an incorrect combination? Any input is appreciated.
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Walnut
Derek:
Did you take the rifle apart and check the inner barrel channel for the serial number? I wouldn't be impossible to find a 1939 K98 with a walnut stock.
They were just in the process of changing over and they would not have wasted a perfectly good walnut stock. I have heard of much later rifles with walnut stock's on occasion. If it is properly serialed and the font look's good,
it is the one that belongs. Some times they serialed the hand guard as well
on the early ones. Is the butt plate flat? If it is, it should also be serialed.
Geopop -
I would suspect that it is perfectly correct. There were in fact a lot of laminated stocks used on 1938 S/243 and 243 coded rifles as well. Mr. Law gave us a very good reference with "Backbone" and also laid the groundwork of how a study of such rifles should be approached. Having said that, there are instances of incorrect data and information on most every page.Originally posted by Derek423956 View Post
One of the problems with the data tables worked up on each code and year in the book is that one would have to examine (CAREFULLY) hundreds or in smaller production runs, dozens, of original examples in order to really be able to say all combinations of part types, WaA stamps and other features would be correct. This was no where near the case with the sample pool used for this book. One can not hang on every word in the book and stand a chance of understanding what is really correct or not with these rifles.Comment
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If you read closely at some of the early Luft issue 42 (Mauser-Werke), or the 243 Mauser- Borsigwalde, there are times where non-laminated stocks were issued. I am sure that there were several time in which Walnut stocks were put on these early guns due to supply. I am also certain that limited numbers of Walnut were used due to cost. Laminated stocks were most likely much cheaper to produce than finding walnut.Comment
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You have been given good advise... but to confirm you have the original stock, the serial number would be on the belly of the stock, on the flat buttplate, and last two digits on the bayo lug. The barrel channel should also be numbered as too the handguard
Laminate stocks were used as early as '37 (uncommon) and more commonly beginning in '38.
For comparison is my 1939 243 for luftwaffe... showing the stock cartouche
Can you post pics?
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Originally posted by Derek423956 View Post
I do in fact have one question, or rather a statement! LETS SEE THIS BEAUTY!!!Comment
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Originally posted by Bob in OH View PostYou have been given good advise... but to confirm you have the original stock, the serial number would be on the belly of the stock, on the flat buttplate, and last two digits on the bayo lug. The barrel channel should also be numbered as too the handguard
Laminate stocks were used as early as '37 (uncommon) and more commonly beginning in '38.
For comparison is my 1939 243 for luftwaffe... showing the stock cartouche
Can you post pics?
Bob, what kind of camera are you using to get those nice closeups? I wish that I could take nice photos like that. MikeComment
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There are no serial numbers on the inside of the forend or handguard. That doesn't bother me a great deal since reading some of the earlier K98k's were not stamped in those areas. The butt plate (thin version) is, however, matched to the rest of the gun. I am headed out the door at the moment but I will be posting pictures later tonight. I also have a Russian capture (w/no import stamp) that is entirely matching except the rear sights. The only reason I believe its a capture rifle is because of the "X" on the receiver. Had it not been for that, I would have just considered it to be a decent vet bring-back. Any opinions on this? Anyone else have a Russian capture that fits into that category? Thanks to all who are interested and have offered their input.
Also, can someone tell me if there is any potential harm in posting photographs of entire serial numbers? I've noticed some people edit the picture to avoid showing the entire number. As you can tell, I'm new to this forum stuff.Comment
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Yes, the "X" is the prime indicator of a Russian import rifle. They'll usually have an import stamp somewhere, will a lot of times have been refurbished, and will quite often be loaded up with annoying cosmolene...
A lot of people are fearful about posting serial numbers because it shows that you have ownership of a specific serial number. This primarily stems back to a fear of government confiscation. I think you'll be alright as of now, but it is looking like gun laws are gonna tighten, so maybe something to think about more in the future... (My personal fav is when people selling a firearm on the internet block out the last two or three digits of the serial number, instead of the first two, making it impossible to see if the gun is matching or not!)
To your overall question, like everyone else I'd have to see photos. My early K98 (1936, walnut) does have the serial numbers inside both components of the stock. But that's obviously a little earlier of a model we're talking about here.
RichComment
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K98k's: 1939 243 (top), 1941 CE, Mitchell's bnz '41
I tried to get as a good a picture as possible on the 243. I included a close-up of the stock - the Heer designation and waffenamts are fairly clear. The second gun down is the Russian capture I mentioned earlier... The last is a Mitchell's, which really isn't bad if you don't mind a K98 that has undergone lots of sanding, buffing and rebluing. Historical preservation obviously isn't in the minds of whoever does their refurbishing. The firing proof is almost completely buffed out, the serial number at the bottom of the stock is completely gone, the bolt is buffed, the disc waffenamt has been wiped out and the rear sight doesn't match the other components. Oh, and the butt plate has been buffed CLEAN. My guess is that they located a rather large stash of Russian captures, purchased them and worked them over. This one obviously sat somewhere for a considerable amount of time with no maintenance since there is still light pitting near the end of the barrel.Comment
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Stock of 1939 243
I am struggling with this photo posting thing... Anyway, here is a close-up of the stock.Comment
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The 3 K98's I mentioned...
I am photo posting challenged. 1939 243 (top), Russian Capture CE '41, Mitchell's bnz '41 (bottom).Comment
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Rich,
I have been over the Russian capture with a fine tooth comb and there is no import stamp... I have taken the gun completely apart and studied every every inch of it. This is one thing that puzzles me. I thought a Russian capture HAD to have an import stamp on it.Comment
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Interesting... It obviously went through a Russian arsenal after the war (hence the "X"), so to not have an import stamp is odd. I do have a M1944 Mosin that likewise doesn't have an import mark. Maybe a couple slip through the system here and there?
I'm sure someone on this forum will have better info.Comment
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Derek... thanks for the pics. What letter block is your 243? Does the buttplate have the serial AND the letter block stamped? I know you said otherwise, but the barrel channel should have the serial internally...Comment
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