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1944 DOT with ZF41 rail PLEASE GIMME SOME INPUT GUYS

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    1944 DOT with ZF41 rail PLEASE GIMME SOME INPUT GUYS

    Ok guys, my friend Grant (Col.Klink) posted on here about a dot K98 that a friend of his was looking at. Well I'm the friend that was looking at it. I went to look at it satuday and it turns out that it was not a SSR like I thought it was from the sellers description. He had told me the rail was on the receiver but when I got there it turned out that it was actually a ZF41 rail on the rear sight base. The rifle 99% matching to serial 553X ap. It is dot stamped on the receiver and also the stock which is an unsanded white glue. It has an original Koch & Bonning Wupperntal - E 1938 dated sling in decent shape on it. The whole thing (including parts of the metal) was laquered by the vet. The guy selling it wanted $750 for it, but I got it for $720, because I figured a matching white-glue dot was worth that anyway. I'm pretty confused by the ZF41 rail though and want some input. I'm gonna list the pros and cons for the rail's originallity below.

    Pros first.
    1. The cutout in the stock is laquered like the rest of the gun, so it was there when whoever laquered it did it. The laquer is obviously quite old.
    2. There are wear marks where a scope mount has been installed.
    3. There are patches of rust and discoloration on the rail, like water and grunge had gotten under the mount.
    4. The serial numbers on the sight slider and ramp match the gun.

    Cons.
    1. The serial number on the sight bar (the numbered part) is the only non-matching number on the rifle.
    2. The rear of the sight base is buggered a little like it was hit with something.
    3. There is a small spot on the sight base between the rail and barrel where it looks like someone ground off a little metal (can't tell if it was to smooth it out so a scope mount would slide on or what).
    4. I just haven't ever heard of a ZF41 dot before.

    There are no proofs of any sort on the sight base. The guy that I got it from didn't really know anything about it. He bought it from a dealer up north several years ago just like it is (including sling) and has never had it apart, fired, cleaned it, or done anything with it. It just sat on a rack in his office. Gimme your thoughts. Don't be afraid to be brutal, I can take it.
    Last edited by fallshirmjager2; 01-19-2009, 11:20 AM.

    #2
    dot never made a zf... end of discussion...

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      #3
      Nope, no dot ZF41's. Hammer marks on the back side of the ZF base should have clued you in. Unless you can return it, enjoy.

      Comment


        #4
        What is the possibility that it could have been a war time arsenal modification? Also, if it is a post war addition should I take it off and replace it with a normal sight base or leave it?

        Comment


          #5
          ...
          Last edited by Bob in OH; 01-18-2009, 10:30 PM.

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            #6
            IMO...

            Plan A: try to get your money back... never hurts to ask...

            Plan B: Sell it and disclose it's flaws w/o changing. You'll make the situation worse. The wood is either an orig stock inlet for a zf, or it was inlet postwar (more likely).....

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by fallshirmjager2 View Post
              What is the possibility that it could have been a war time arsenal modification? Also, if it is a post war addition should I take it off and replace it with a normal sight base or leave it?
              Conversion to ZF41 system was done at the factory level, not the field level. In 44, Mauser Oberndorf as the only ZF41 maker, and they didn't convert ZF guns from used (or even new) rifles from other makers.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Bob in OH View Post
                IMO...

                Plan A: try to get your money back... never hurts to ask...

                Plan B: Sell it and disclose it's flaws w/o changing. You'll make the situation worse. The wood is either an orig stock inlet for a zf, or it was inlet postwar (more likely).....
                Well the stock is stamped dot and it and the handgaurd are both matching to the rifle, stamped with the serial number on the inside. This is the main reason that I am confused by it, since the cut out is laquered over like the rest of the gun, and the stock is definately original to the gun. I can't really see any modern faker taking a matching rifle that is known to not have been produced in the ZF41 configuration, with good original blue and unsanded white glue stock, and cutting it and putting on a ZF41 base. And then being a moron enough to laquer the whole thing. It screams stupid on so many levels that I almost can't see any self respecting faker doing it. I have a hard time believing "done by a field armorer" story, but at the same time it has clearly been on the rifle a very long time. I appreciate the feedback - anything else you guys have to say would be great too

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                  #9
                  The stock may be the orig dot wood,,, that was inlet for the rail.

                  That inlet work by the Germans is quite predictably of high quality while the postwar inlet often is subpar. Can you take a decent pic of the inlet in the wood... and a second pic of the rear sight base showing the corners where it might have been tapped off from another rig?

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                    #10
                    Glad to see you got on the forum Peter! If you don't want to pay the $25 Association Membership fee, use something like photobucket and attach it to one of your posts.

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                      #11
                      Is this gun in MS or AL? If so,I think I owned it before it was"field converted"after I sold it.I don't remeber the ser# but it sounds familiar, was a dot,mostly matching AND the guy I sold it to put a repo WaA214 marked ZF base and original scope he got off Ebay Germany.Then he schlepped the whole rig to the Biloxi military show and dumped it for cost,nobody believed there either! That was in '95... I recall it had a hairline crack in the wrist,hard to see.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The gun is in MS. I don't see any WaA214 or crack in the wrist though. Was the one you had laquered? I'll get a link to some pics up ASAP

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Everyone who is trying to help is correct.
                          • "dot" did not make zf41 rifles.
                          • "byf" made them in 1944 ("ar" and "duv" before then).
                          • It sounds like someone, in a very sloppy postwar manner, put the rear zf41 sight assembly on the rifle. Not a tough thing to do if you have some basic gunsmithing skills.
                          • The price is a fraction of what an original would cost (yes, there are always deals).
                          • The rest just simply does not matter in authenticating and "hoping" it might be era. Sorry.
                          You can always find a zf41 scope and mount in order to have a representative (but inaccurate) zf41 rig.
                          Willi

                          Preußens Gloria!

                          sigpic

                          Sapere aude

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                            #14
                            Fallguy... remember these prophetic words from the last post on dot optically sighted 98k's............................ "run away....run away.!!".

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I took the barreled action out of the stock today to photograph and examine the rear sight base. I found that the sleave showed signs of discoloration from heating. Also after looking at pictures of original ZF41's on the web - I saw that the sight rail appeared to be a seperate piece of metal from the sight base (not one milled assembly). I applied heat and sure enough, the rail had been tinned/soldered on - it came right off the sight base with a very little force. I dremeled away the solder and am polishing and blueing the area up to match the rest of the rifle. I'm thinking that I will get a piece of laminate and fill in the cutout in the stock. I have found something else about this rifle though which is so extraordinary/astounding that I feel it deserves a seperate thread.

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