Black Widow Luger?

[macumazan]

Hi everybdy!

This is another of my lugers.

This was purchased to a guy some years ago, who said it belonged to a Blue Division Spanish officer. This is what I was told, but of course I keep a distance to this story. “Buy the item, not the story” .

I would dare to say that it is a Black Widow" Luger , typically a 41 or a 42 dated chamber Mauser, toggle coded "byf" with black plastic grips (on about 20% of them). This one have one of its grips darker than the other, but both brown, reissued? It has a black salt blued finish, and all blued (black color) small parts (trigger, safety lever and take down lever).

Another particularity of this luger is that the bar to dismount the weapon shows little damages, this was normal sometimes in the front because if you do not have special ability to dismount the weapon, it is necessary to play a little bit with the rack, it can be damaged.

The weapon is deactivated and there is a little damage in the basis of the gun, I think consequence of the deactivation perhaps.

I think too that the blue is original, all numbers are matching less the magazine.

In some places they advertise them as a very valuable items:
http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=179_261

I have read in some places that this was an American invention, and had no German basis at all!
Do you think is a Black Widow Luger? They are so valuable as it is shown in some collectors sites?

Thanks everybody

Macumazan

[macumazan]

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[macumazan]

last picture

thanks everybody!!!

[RamJet]

Nice gun!

The "Black Widow Luger" was an invention of US collectors after the war who thought that byf41 or byf42 P.08s with black bakelite grips (which were only invented to replace the costly wooden grips) and magazines with black bottoms were made for the SS. They were not.

I have a deactivated P.08 byf41 which I display with wooden grips instead of the bakelite ones which I also have. Looks much better than the cheap bakelite stuff ... Of course I know that the bakelite grips are more worth than the wooden ones today in the US.

[phild]

Generally the term Black Widow is only given to those Lugers with the black composition grips and mag bottoms. IMO it would be hard to say if any byf black grip Lugers came originally with numbered alum. mag bases as the grips can so easily be changed out....hence I feel that the Lugers with black grips originally were also equiped with black bottom mags...

IMO no one can say for sure where. how or why the nick name Black Widow got started. The attribution is certainly applied and claimed by one of the largest and longest standing US based Luger collectors/dealers...but if HE in fact picked the term up from a vet selling him one or someone else who can say?

I doubt that there was any widespread or well known name for them applied by the Germans....as I don't see groups of soldiers all armed with black gripped Lugers sitting around a dreaming up names for them...maybe thats just me.

I do think that a large % of byf Lugers were allocated to the W-SS...black gripped and otherwise. It had everything to do timing and nothing to do with them being black gripped. I could write a couple of pages on the evidence that I have documented since the late 60s that leads me to this conclusion but it would not matter to most anyway.

[RamJet]

Oh, I forgot: Look for a magazine which is stamped E/655. Yours stamped E/63 was also manufactured by Mauser, but before Your gun was made. They started using the E/655 stamp in 1940, if I remember right.