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    #1

    M1 Garand Sniper

    Hi
    I have also being offered ( apart from a bnz MG42 ) a Winchester made Sniper M1 Garand from 1944.
    I would like to know what to look for and if possible pictures of any you may have, in order to be able to choose right
    Thanks for your help
    Ace
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    #2






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      #3
      I'm no expert on the Garand snipers but that is a M1D sniper which came out post WWII. I believe the M1D came out in the late 50's or early 60's. The scope is an M84 which also is post WarII. Unless the rifle has paperwork from CMP or another government enity documenting that it's a real M1D it's only worth the sum of parts as a shooter which is probably plus or minus about $2,000. If papered it could be worth $3,000-$4,000. Many of these guns were assembled by folks using surplus barrels and mounts. Ray

      Comment

        #4
        Well, Ray, there were a very limited number of M1Ds that made it into the European theater in late WWII, but they were primarily used in Korea and early Vietnam. The barrel date on mine is 1-52, and most of them were made from WWII garand reworks.

        As far as your estimates on prices go, I would like to point out that while you ARE correct about papered M1Ds from the CMP going for more than ones without papers, the estimate of $2000 for a repro is kinda lowballing it.

        Now, IF it was one made using a standard M1 barrel turned down and with one of those little mount blocks and sight mount sets that SARCO sells, and a reproduction M84 scope, then maybe.

        But take mine, for example- using an original, properly numbered M1D barrel (IF you can even find one for sale, period), with an original mount and mint original clear scope, and the proper Hart cone flash hider, good luck finding all that AND a complete garand with the correct parts for a 1952 rebuild, for much less than $3000. I know I wouldn't sell mine for much less than that, if I were to decide to sell it. And IF that new AWB gets passed, you can count on the prices going up from even that. And in the original poster's case, one made on a winchester receiver would be worth more than that, by virtue of the rariety of the weapon.

        To give some comparison to what a papered M1D Garand from the civilian marksmanship program with the accessories is currently going for, here's a link to one they have on auction right now. With 18 hours left to go on it, it's high bid so far is $4,715 and that does NOT even include the flash hider.
        http://auction.odcmp.com/auctions/de...1375&pic=0#img
        With the papered originals going for that much, I don't think estimating the value of one like mine is all that unreasonable at $3,000 with all the accessories.
        Last edited by Pvt. Joker; 11-22-2008, 11:46 PM.

        Comment

          #5
          Thanks for posting the pictures.
          The one offered to me is slightly different from yours, being the mount screwed by means of three screws, but not in the same place as yours but to the right of it ( viewing the pictures ).
          The mount is numbered and matches the number of the M1.
          The scope is marked LYMAN Made in USA ( I can't remember properly right now ) .
          Is it an original one or a civilian messed with one?
          Thanks for your answers.
          Ace

          Comment

            #6
            Ace,
            Here is a good description of the M1D.

            http://www.scott-duff.com/M1D.htm

            But you now are describing what would appear to be an M1C. The M1C scope mounts with three screws instead of the one big thumb-screw like the M1D.

            Good Luck, it's a jungle out there. Lots of fakes..
            The probability of being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity of your act.

            Comment

              #7
              Ronnie, many thanks for the headups and the link. Nice description
              So it is a M1C, does anybody have pictures of a M1C?
              The one offered was made by Winchester, and the stock is not numbered but marked WRA and something else, like a proof mark.
              The scope doesn't bear any military markings/designation that I could see.
              I think it was marked LYMAN All American made or something like that.
              I couldn't take pictures and my memory sucks......
              What would it be worth if real?
              The M1C is more common than the M1D?


              Originally posted by Ronnie Fry View Post
              Ace,
              Here is a good description of the M1D.

              http://www.scott-duff.com/M1D.htm

              But you now are describing what would appear to be an M1C. The M1C scope mounts with three screws instead of the one big thumb-screw like the M1D.

              Good Luck, it's a jungle out there. Lots of fakes..

              Comment

                #8
                The M1C was adopted as an M1 sniper rifle in July 1944 and saw limited action in WWII. The rifle sported a Lyman Alaskan scope designated by the Military as a M81 and the receiver had a Griffin and Howe mount held on the receiver by three screws and pins, the pins were staked and should show no evidence of removal. If no staking they are not original. The rifles most recognized as original M1C production fall within the 3 million serial range. A gentleman in the garand collectors association issues letters for probable authentic M1C receivers as there are ranges within the 3 million receivers that were sent to Griffin and Howe in NY for drilling and tapping for the scope rail before heat treat back at Springfield Armory. His research has identified the ranges that are most probable for authentic M1C's.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Thanks for your asnwer as well.
                  If I recall properly it is numbered 2,8xx,xxx and the seller told me it was made in 1944.
                  When aiming the rifle, the scope remained in the left side, so you could also aim the rifle with the original sights.
                  So this one may have a chance....

                  Originally posted by jdbwoodsman View Post
                  The M1C was adopted as an M1 sniper rifle in July 1944 and saw limited action in WWII. The rifle sported a Lyman Alaskan scope designated by the Military as a M81 and the receiver had a Griffin and Howe mount held on the receiver by three screws and pins, the pins were staked and should show no evidence of removal. If no staking they are not original. The rifles most recognized as original M1C production fall within the 3 million serial range. A gentleman in the garand collectors association issues letters for probable authentic M1C receivers as there are ranges within the 3 million receivers that were sent to Griffin and Howe in NY for drilling and tapping for the scope rail before heat treat back at Springfield Armory. His research has identified the ranges that are most probable for authentic M1C's.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Other thing I can recall is that the scope has a cross-wire reticle......a usefull hint???

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Actually, the M1C is much rarer than the M1D varient like mine. However, do be aware that there is a guy in France who makes a pretty nice replica of the M1C mount. Either way, they are a really nice weapon.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Ace,
                        The M1C is MUCH LESS common than the M1D. So the value would increase accordingly. Before laying out the $$, I'd take jbwoodsman's advice, to have the s/n verified, if you have it.

                        r
                        The probability of being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity of your act.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Only Springfield Armory rifles in the 3 million range are original M1C's. Like mentioned earlier, lots of fakes out there.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Ace,
                            I will pm you the email address of the M1C verifier....

                            r
                            The probability of being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity of your act.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Hi jdbwoodsman and thanks for your answer.
                              Do you mean that Winchester never made M1C's?
                              I have read in the net that simple M1's from any maker were sent to the Springfield Armory to be fitted with the mount and scope, and that the process with the M1C's was so slow that they had to improve another scope mount, which resulted in the M1D.
                              Also I have read that, although no military designation plate, the Lyman scope if it comes with a cross-wire reticle is a M81.
                              Is that right?
                              thanks for your help and knowledge
                              Ace


                              Originally posted by jdbwoodsman View Post
                              Only Springfield Armory rifles in the 3 million range are original M1C's. Like mentioned earlier, lots of fakes out there.

                              Comment

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