Late War P38 Hardshell??

[John Gordon]

I recently acquired an original P38 Hardshell holster. It is marked with the P38 stamp in the usual way and has a WaA code of 383 . However, there is no maker name or code but only what appears to be an Rb number which reads 0/0833 over 0029. Would this this signify a late 1943 or even 1944 hardshell when the soft type was introduced and Rb numbers were used on some clothing and equipment? How common is this type of ID? I have several P38 Hard and softshell holsters including some softshells dated 1944 and 1945 however, they all have maker codes. Thanks, John

[madandi]

Why not?
WaA is bmo; Hans Deuter.
http://www.deuter.com/company.php

[madandi]

Is it perhaps
0/0833
0009 ?
Here is a backpack with this RbNr:
http://starozitnosti.hyperinzercia.s...menim--ponuka/

And here you can find a K98-Pouch:
http://www.stinch.com/militaria/k98_pouch_mfg00.shtml

[John Gordon]

Thanks for your comments and the Rb reference which is very interesting. I have checked again. The second number is very distinct as 0029. The first number is faint at the end and is either 0/0838 or 0/0836 or 0/0886, neither of which appears on the list in combination with 0029.I understand there is no known complete list of all Rb numbers, is that correct? My interest in the Rb number also stems from the belief that the hardshell holsters stopped in 1943 when replaced by the soft quick releas type. This number might signify a manufacture date for my clamshell in 1944 or 1945?

[leondes]

Hi John,

It appears that the Germans were revising their procurement system starting in 1943 and started using the "RB Nr" or "RF Nr" on some items. I have seen quite a bit of cloth and a number of bayonet frogs with the new marking.

In 1944, I know of at least 2 hard shell holster makers. gmo and ewx. The "RB" number shows up on hard shells and soft shells. All of the soft shells I have seen with that marking are police marked. I have and have seen hard shells with only the "RB" number and a waffenamt stamp. I have also seen a couple of holsters that were apparently transitionals and have both the maker code and the "RB" number.

My feeling is the "RB" number started showing up late in 1944 for hard shells.

I have seen some research on the "RB" number and the researcher broke it down as: The first digit indicates the type of equipment, 0 being leather goods. The next 4 digits indicated a district. The last 4 identified a factory or maker.

Here are a couple of links pertaining to all this.

http://lmd-militaria.com/page590.html

http://lmd-militaria.com/page601.html

Hope this helps. There is still a lot that is not known about the new system.

Regards, Leon

[FestungSpanien]

There's a GJ rucksack already being sold on the E-stand with the very same marking as you describe
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=315840

[John Gordon]

Folks thanks for your assistance and advice on this. What a co-incidence with the same rb Number appearing on the rucksack!

[phild]

Hi John,

It appears that the Germans were revising their procurement system starting in 1943 and started using the "RB Nr" or "RF Nr" on some items. I have seen quite a bit of cloth and a number of bayonet frogs with the new marking.

In 1944, I know of at least 2 hard shell holster makers. gmo and ewx. The "RB" number shows up on hard shells and soft shells. All of the soft shells I have seen with that marking are police marked. I have and have seen hard shells with only the "RB" number and a waffenamt stamp. I have also seen a couple of holsters that were apparently transitionals and have both the maker code and the "RB" number.

My feeling is the "RB" number started showing up late in 1944 for hard shells.

I have seen some research on the "RB" number and the researcher broke it down as: The first digit indicates the type of equipment, 0 being leather goods. The next 4 digits indicated a district. The last 4 identified a factory or maker.

Here are a couple of links pertaining to all this.

http://lmd-militaria.com/page590.html

http://lmd-militaria.com/page601.html

Hope this helps. There is still a lot that is not known about the new system.

Regards, Leon

I agree with most of the above. I will add that I don't know when Rb numbers started appearing on leather ordnance related items like frogs and holsters, but thye were being used on other items by mid to late 1942 without any doubt.

I also can state that in my experience harshell P.38 holsters dated 1944 are not very common. That style was be phased out by late 1943 and I believe that most 44 dated examples are from early 44 perhaps made up from from parts already cut out in 43 and even then they seem to trace back to only a very few makers....one of those (as already pointed out) was ewx.

Like most everything else where they was a change in marking style or model style. it did not happen overnight...sometimes the transition took many months.

[leondes]

Hi phild,

In addition to ewx and gmo, you can also find 1944 dates on hard shell P.38 holsters made by lyo and ndk which were made in Poland and were virtually always made of brown leather. lyo and ndk never made soft shells as far as I know.

Regards, Leon

[Matt Weber]

Leon is correct, as usual, with the holster information. I've never seen an "lyo" or "ndk" break-away type P38 holster either.

I'd also like to point out that "Adalbert Fischer, Berlin", maker code "emj", also made P38 hardshells in 1944. Most of these are police marked, but not all! And they are quite different in construction than a standard hardshell holster.

1944 dated harshells are not all that common, but they are out there. I wouldn't call them "rare", but I'd would say they are "scarce", or difficult to find these days.

Matt