Gun markings

[PZIV]

Does anyone have pictures of a 98K's with markings for kill counts?

For example: notches in the wood.

[bodes]

Does anyone have pictures of a 98K's with markings for kill counts?

For example: notches in the wood.

Mansal, Me thinks you watch too many westerns......Bodes

[PZIV]

I saw an SS Kar98 with the notches on the gun. It's not common (why I'm asking for pictures), but it's still possible...

[gew98]

I saw an SS Kar98 with the notches on the gun. It's not common (why I'm asking for pictures), but it's still possible...

lay off the koolaide... oh and the westerns too.

[PZIV]

Alright, well you guys can continue to make fun of a simple question.

I acknowledge the fact that anyone can make their own notches applied post-war, but I was curious if anyone had anything like this. I mean, tanks, Flak, and the Luftwaffe all did this, so I didn't think it was that absurd for an infantryman to do the same.

Sorry for wasting your precious time and space.

[phild]

Alright, well you guys can continue to make fun of a simple question.

I acknowledge the fact that anyone can make their own notches applied post-war, but I was curious if anyone had anything like this. I mean, tanks, Flak, and the Luftwaffe all did this, so I didn't think it was that absurd for an infantryman to do the same.

Sorry for wasting your precious time and space.

I am not dismissing your question. I have several ( not German) military rifles with period "kill marks" in the wood and I have seen others that I believe to be original as well. I have also seen a number of others that I would not venture a guess as to the originality of the kill markings. As you have suggested it is very hard in most cases to tell when a series of lines or notches were put into a stock and if it was to represent enemy kills, deer kills or to back up a good war story to be pitched by a 82ndABN pay clerk or gun show lot lizard.

I would say that in my experience such markings and any other expressive soldier carvings were not common practice by German soldiers (as opposed to say CSA soldiers 80 years earlier), on the other hand the book on the Eastern Front Sniper details this practice as occuring to some degree and the tragic consequences of at least one instance of it.

[PZIV]

I am not dismissing your question. I have several ( not German) military rifles with period "kill marks" in the wood and I have seen others that I believe to be original as well. I have also seen a number of others that I would not venture a guess as to the originality of the kill markings. As you have suggested it is very hard in most cases to tell when a series of lines or notches were put into a stock and if it was to represent enemy kills, deer kills or to back up a good war story to be pitched by a 82ndABN pay clerk or gun show lot lizard.

I would say that in my experience such markings and any other expressive soldier carvings were not common practice by German soldiers (as opposed to say CSA soldiers 80 years earlier), on the other hand the book on the Eastern Front Sniper details this practice as occuring to some degree and the tragic consequences of at least one instance of it.

Thank you for the productive response. German or not, might you be willing to show me? I guess it's pretty easy to use the imagination, but I thought it would be interesting.

[Steve Sherlock]

Hey Mansal,
I've wondered the same thing from time to time, and it's nice to see someone, as in Phild, actually has an intelligent and informative response to your question. As far as the condescending remarks of the first two responses, just chalk it up to those folks watching too many westerns while drinking too much koolaid. It will screw your mind every time...

Steve

[juoneen]

go to tony bartos forum and scroll down to article on ss totenkopf marked sniper scope, then go to # 20 and look at the scope serial number with all the notches below, they didnt mark the wood in this case, they marked the scope mount. What do you think , is that what you want to see?How many kills? I posted a paratrooper knife with a bunch of strange marks on the top edge deliberately, and thought is it for jumps , kills? You think about the sniper scope base.

[Theodor]

Most often, these markings are for the number of girls "killed" /for some money or for free/ - where else to mark this, marking the "other barrel" would be a little pain

[PZIV]

go to tony bartos forum and scroll down to article on ss totenkopf marked sniper scope, then go to # 20 and look at the scope serial number with all the notches below, they didnt mark the wood in this case, they marked the scope mount. What do you think , is that what you want to see?How many kills? I posted a paratrooper knife with a bunch of strange marks on the top edge deliberately, and thought is it for jumps , kills? You think about the sniper scope base.

Ah yes I see this. I wonder what it could be? They look small, but then again, I doubt the sniper would have the time to etch things in too big if he ever did this. Thanks

[phild]

go to tony bartos forum and scroll down to article on ss totenkopf marked sniper scope, then go to # 20 and look at the scope serial number with all the notches below, they didnt mark the wood in this case, they marked the scope mount. What do you think , is that what you want to see?How many kills? I posted a paratrooper knife with a bunch of strange marks on the top edge deliberately, and thought is it for jumps , kills? You think about the sniper scope base.

I would have some real doubts about those marks being kill marks or even even intentionaly made, based on the photo.

For one thing, I agree with you that the metal would be an unlikley place to put them. The patina on the mount is not seen in the scratches and that would be hard to explain on a component that should have aged evenly.

The marks also look pretty random and more like they have been gouged into the metal from some kind of vise or pliers rather than just cut or scratched with a hand tool.

[Josh Beckett]

I could imagine that it happened, but it wouldnt have been a good idea to do if you planned on getting captured.

I read about a german soldier who kept a soviet M91/30 and put kill marks on it, and when going home to germany with his souvenir, was ambushed and captured, when the soviet soldiers discovered the kill marks, they shoved the rifle up his butt and killed him. I read about that on here.

[bodes]

Hey Mansal,
I've wondered the same thing from time to time, and it's nice to see someone, as in Phild, actually has an intelligent and informative response to your question. As far as the condescending remarks of the first two responses, just chalk it up to those folks watching too many westerns while drinking too much koolaid. It will screw your mind every time...

Steve

My intention wasn't to berate any one......I was just merely stating I have my doubts that much of this took place in "real life" during WW2......Soldiers had quite a few more important things to worry about, than keeping a tally of how many enemy they've killed (JMHO).....Like keeping as comfortable and as sane as reasonably possible, while staving off death day in and day out....

Snipers perhaps were different.....However, as many snipers worked in teams, I tend to believe many had ledgers or diaries to log such information.....And as somebody alluded to, a notched weapon with supposed kills on it, wouldn't be something you would want to be captured with....

And lastly, Mansal mentioned "kills" being recorded on AA and AT guns, tank crews, etc.....I believe that was done for purposes of building morale and instilling pride for the respected crews....I just don't see notches on a weapon as being the same thing......Bodes

[PZIV]

My intention wasn't to berate any one......I was just merely stating I have my doubts that much of this took place in "real life" during WW2......Soldiers had quite a few more important things to worry about, than keeping a tally of how many enemy they've killed (JMHO).....Like keeping as comfortable and as sane as reasonably possible, while staving off death day in and day out....

Snipers perhaps were different.....However, as many snipers worked in teams, I tend to believe many had ledgers or diaries to log such information.....And as somebody alluded to, a notched weapon with supposed kills on it, wouldn't be something you would want to be captured with....

And lastly, Mansal mentioned "kills" being recorded on AA and AT guns, tank crews, etc.....I believe that was done for purposes of building morale and instilling pride for the respected crews....I just don't see notches on a weapon as being the same thing......Bodes

Well your view is valued and a good contribution, but your first comments were not so tactful.

I agree it's hard for anything to be proved. I guess it's more of stories like Josh was talking about.